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Predator 03-11-2008 09:33 PM

The Smut and Sadism of Rock
 
Most of us have heard of the PMRC hearings from 1985. Without going into the issue of censorship, where do you stand on the subject? Do you think it is important for parents to know what their kids are listening to? How has the music industry changed as a result of the hearings? Is it for the better or worse?
This is what set the whole thing off.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipper Gore
Sexual innuendo or rebellion has always been a part of rock 'n' roll, but nowadays, sex is described explicitly, complete with moans and groans. Moreover, sadomasochism, bondage, incest and rape are out of the closet and into the lyrics. Whips, chains, handcuffs and leather masks are being popularized in songs and as images in videos and on album covers. Lyrics glorify forced sex; videos depict thrill killings.

"Eat Me Alive" from Judas Priest's double platinum album (2 million copies sold) "Defenders of the Faith" depicts forcing oral sex at gunpoint.

Motley Crue, a heavy metal band increasingly popular with young teens, sings this in "Live Wire":

I'll either break her face
Or take down her legs
Get my ways at will
Go for the throat, never let loose.
Going in for the kill.

Or consider this from "Too Young to Fall in Love" from "Shout at the Devil":

Not a woman, but a whore
I can taste the hate
Well, now I'm killing you
Watching your face turning blue

Twisted Sister, a group often in the Top 40, has these lyrics on their "Under the Blade" album:

Your hands are tied,
Your legs are strapped.
You're going under the blade.

My 11-year-old bought Prince's 10-million-seller "Purple Rain" album because she heard an innocuous song, "Let's Go Crazy," on the radio. But once we got our purchase home, we were also treated to "Darling Nikki." The song describes "Nikki" as "a sex fiend," who spends her time "in a hotel lobby, masturbating."

Another example of Prince's work comes in the song "Sister" from the "Dirty Mind" album. The lyrics describe a 16-year old boy making love to his "lovely and loose" sister. The song concludes that "incest is everything it's said to be."

I feel that these songs, and others like them, are inappropriate for my children. Yet I find it very difficult to protect them from their twisted themes.

Studies indicate that the listening, buying and viewing audience for music is growing younger. To those who say, "Just turn it off," I submit that it is unrealistic to believe parents can control everything a child listens to.

It's time to remember that radio stations are licensed to broadcast "in the public interest," using a precious natural resource that belongs to all of us. And it isn't just radio anymore. Music videos, which are used to sell records to kids, come into our homes via broadcast TV and via cable on MTV, a 24-hour music channel, reaching 26 million homes.

Graphic sex, sadomasochism and violence, particularly toward women, are rampant on MTV. Its executives need to respond to the public outcry and curb the excesses, especially since MTV is an industry trend-setter. Jay Durbin, a music video director, has been quoted as saying he doesn't let his young children watch MTV because of the "incredible sadism."

Thomas Radechi of the National Coalition on Television Violence warns that more than half of music videos are violent. For example:

* Def Leppard's video "Photograph" shows the strangling of a Marilyn Monroe look-alike, and ends with her body wrapped in barbed wire.

* Twisted Sister's "We're Not Going to Take It Anymore" shows a son destroying his father, smashing him with doors, dragging by the hair and eventually blasting him through a plate-glass window.

* Billy Idol's "Dancing With Myself" has a naked woman struggling in chains behind a transparent sheet. The Jackson's "Torture" shows women whipping skeletons and attacking men with claws and swords. Images of devil worship abound.

* Van Halen's "Hot For Teacher" features a schoolteacher doing a striptease on top of desks while elementary schoolboys ogle at her. When my 8-year-old asked me, "Why is the teacher taking off her clothes in school," I started paying attention to the videos my children watch.

Children process reality differently from adults, a fact we too often forget. These images have powerful and terrifying effects on young minds.

In another disconcerting development, some rock artists promote and glorify suicide. Ozzy Osbourne sings "Suicide Solution"; Blue Oyster Cult sings "Don't Fear the Reaper"; AC/DC sings "Shoot to Thrill." Every year half a million teenagers attempt suicide. More than 6,000 succeed. Yet too many of the executives of the rock record industry apparently don't care.

No one should want a return to Victorian hypocrisy about sex. It was repressive at worst and unrealistic at best. But now the pendulum has swung too far toward the hedonistic and materialistic philosophy of: If it feels good, do it; if you want it, take it.

The time has come for concerned parents and consumers to demand a choice. Recently, 19 record companies offered to apply a warning label to albums containing explicit sexual material. However, each company would have its own standard as to what lyrics warranted a label. The effect in the marketplace would be to confuse the consumer.

The Parents Music Resource Center has asked the record executives to create an industrywide uniform standard defining what constitutes explicit and violent material. We of the PMRC are not trying to ban any songs, and we oppose censorship or government regulation. Instead, we believe that the music industry itself and its media outlets should voluntarily cut down on violent and sexually explicit material.

We have proposed a rating system for records, tapes and videos that the industry could administer itself.

The national PTA (National Congress of Parents and Teachers) has also been calling for records to be rated. And some responsible voices within the industry have called for restraint. George David Weiss, president of the Songwriters Guild of America, called for the music industry to tone down. "There is enough violence without glorifying it in music aimed at youngsters," he wrote in Billboard.

Even Sting, formerly of the rock group The Police, is on record as saying "to write pornography is to display a lack of imagination."

On Sept. 19, the Senate Commerce Committee will hold hearings on pornographic rock music.

That's the good news. The bad news is that most purveyors of porno rock think they can get by with anything by simply accusing their critics of advocating censorship.

To market explicit sex and graphic and sadistic violence to an audience of preteens and teens is a secondary form of child abuse. A society whose mass media peddles these themes unchallenged is abdicating its responsibility to an entire generation of young Americans. I believe in the First Amendment, but freedom always involves responsibilities.

It's not easy being a parent these days, but it's even tougher being a kid. It's about time the record industry gave us all a break.

Tipper Gore, a founder of the Parents Music Resource Center, is the mother of four, ages 2 to 11. She is married to Sen. Albert Gore Jr. (D-Tenn.). "Live Wire" and "Too Young to Fall In Love" lyrics © 1982 Warner Tamerlane Publishing Corp. and Motley Crue Publishing. "Under the Blade" lyrics used with permission of Snidest Music Co. Inc. and Zomba Enterprises.

I think that when looking at lyrical content, vulgarity has increased. Violence in music has also increased. It is to the point that interpreting lyrics isn't necessary in some cases. To hold the hearings again today with artists like Cannibal Corpse and Eminem would end up detrimental to the industry.
As a parent I think it is more important for me to teach my kids the difference between fantasy and reality. My parents did a good job of that and when I hear the lyrics "fornicate the dead" I don't go out and screw dead people. I don't think its a long shot to believe that most parents have done the same. Of course I am talking about the extreme end of the spectrum. When you start looking at certain violent lyrics such as "Kim" by Eminem the picture may change. Somebody acting out these lyrics may not be so far fetched. Eminem wrote about this in "Stan". We could turn this to the argument about video games and tv and end up with the same problem. Rather than screening everything that your kids are exposed to, I think its more important to teach them what is right and wrong. Of course if I hear my 12 year old daughter listening to "Fuck The World", I'm gonna take it from her. Sometimes you have to censor what your kids are exposed to, most times you just need to make sure they understand that it isn't reality.
I'm not sure that the hearings had a long term effect on music. Short term, I remember having problems buying music because of that damned sticker, today it seems like a badge of honor. Lyrical content has gotten worse in terms of the subject matter that the PMRC was against.
My stand on this is education. It shouldn't be the responsibility of anyone other than the parents to educate their children. The hearings were a waste if time and, though I understand their concern, the senate has no place in the matter.

Farfisa 03-11-2008 09:38 PM

ahhhh to many words.....

sweet_nothing 03-11-2008 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loose_lips_sink_ships (Post 454031)
ahhhh to many words.....

yeah,I only read the first paragraph. But I don't think parent should control what kids listen to. If that happened I would of never heard the Sex Pistols

Predator 03-11-2008 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loose_lips_sink_ships (Post 454031)
ahhhh to many words.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweet_nothing (Post 454039)
yeah,I only read the first paragraph. But I don't think parent should control what kids listen to. If that happened I would of never heard the Sex Pistols


Wow, the attention span of our youth...............

Skip the quote and read on.



LOOK, ITS SOMETHING SHINY.

Alfred 03-11-2008 10:23 PM

Ten year old kids shouldn't be listening to "Crazy Bitch" or "I Wanna **** You", but I don't see a problem with them listening to some milder stuff. It's really up to the parents. If they wanna let their kids listen to whatever they want, who is Tipper Gore to tell them otherwise?

Dmizz 03-11-2008 10:25 PM

people are right to be concerned but trying to censor everything is impossible they need to quit sugar coating things and quit thinking they're kids are so innocent they need to teach them what things are and what they mean because kids are gonna be exposed to them anyway.

SATCHMO 03-11-2008 10:47 PM

Pointing the finger at artistic expression is an inadequate way of absolving yourself of parental responsibility.
There will always be garbage out there and if you can't communicate with your children about it perhaps THAT'S what you should be worried about, not the lyrics to a hip hop song.

sleepy jack 03-11-2008 10:52 PM

That's fine if Tipper Gore feels those songs are inappropriate for her children but don't tell me I have to follow her standards for my own kid.*












*I don't actually have a kid but if I did I'd raise him on Mclusky and Big Black.

Predator 03-11-2008 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfred (Post 454080)
Ten year old kids shouldn't be listening to "Crazy Bitch" or "I Wanna **** You", but I don't see a problem with them listening to some milder stuff. It's really up to the parents. If they wanna let their kids listen to whatever they want, who is Tipper Gore to tell them otherwise?

Tipper Gore's position on this was as a concerned parent. Of course you have to take into account who her husband is. If it had been my mother in her shoes nothing would have happened. Her goal in the matter didn't seem to be censoring the music so much giving parents more options to monitor what their children are listening to. She even stated that the PMRC was not looking for censorship.
Quote:

The Parents Music Resource Center has asked the record executives to create an industrywide uniform standard defining what constitutes explicit and violent material. We of the PMRC are not trying to ban any songs, and we oppose censorship or government regulation. Instead, we believe that the music industry itself and its media outlets should voluntarily cut down on violent and sexually explicit material.
It ended up being the senate committee that pushed harder for censorship.
I agree that if I think its ok for my 6 year old to listen to Torture Killer, thats my choice to make. I don't think anyone should be able to tell me any different.

Comus 03-12-2008 08:09 AM

Even at the time all those stickers did was ensure sales of the CD.

Gates_of_Iscariot 03-12-2008 04:59 PM

my kid will listen to slayer at birth \m/
seriously
i was never censored thats BS

i hope my kids go listen to mayhem in preschool

Urban Hat€monger ? 03-12-2008 05:01 PM

Quote:

* Billy Idol's "Dancing With Myself" has a naked woman struggling in chains behind a transparent sheet. The Jackson's "Torture" shows women whipping skeletons and attacking men with claws and swords. Images of devil worship abound.
:laughing:

I love it how she was totally oblivious to the fact the entire song was about masturbation.

pheurton 03-12-2008 05:05 PM

People should be subjected to all art forms,
whether young or old. Plus, keeping something
hidden from a kid wont solve anything; but
subjecting them to it will solve everything.
EVERYTHING

cardboard adolescent 03-12-2008 05:11 PM

if kids don't get smut and sadism from rock n' roll,
where are they gonna get it?!

sweet_nothing 03-12-2008 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent (Post 454387)
if kids don't get smut and sadism from rock n' roll,
where are they gonna get it?!

From their parents and the chruch.

Predator 03-12-2008 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO (Post 454103)
Pointing the finger at artistic expression is an inadequate way of absolving yourself of parental responsibility.
There will always be garbage out there and if you can't communicate with your children about it perhaps THAT'S what you should be worried about, not the lyrics to a hip hop song.

Exactly. All to often parents, politicians, religious leaders and so on want to blame everything but themselves. Johnny stole a car so he must have gotten the idea from a video game. Billy robbed a store and shot the clerk, he must have gotten the idea from a rap star. Sarah sleeps with everyone she meets, it must be that hip hop song. Why can't anyone take responsibility? If my kids knock off a 7-11, its because I failed at teaching them what is right and wrong. It was me that failed to teach them responsibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comus (Post 454177)
Even at the time all those stickers did was ensure sales of the CD.

You have to consider the stores that either will not sell music with the stickers or won't sell it to minors. I went into many stores that would not sell me music with the sticker. There are plenty of stores that will not sell anything with the sticker.

tkpb938 03-12-2008 10:15 PM

Quote:

You have to consider the stores that either will not sell music with the stickers or won't sell it to minors. I went into many stores that would not sell me music with the sticker. There are plenty of stores that will not sell anything with the sticker.
Wal-Mart is the only mainstream CD seller I know that won't sell explicit CD's.

Predator 03-12-2008 11:04 PM

I buy all my music from either Borders or Amazon now, but in the past I have found that if I wanted uncensored music, I had to go to a music store. I can't speak for today, but I know that in the past most large retail stores took the same point as Wal Mart. There was a while when I lived in NC that there was 1 local record store that would sell albums with the sticker. Eventually, the other stores learned that this stand was bad for revenue. Sure, you set "high moral standards" but you were losing money at the same time.


EDIT: I left NC in 91 or 92.

jackhammer 03-13-2008 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predator (Post 454546)
Exactly. All to often parents, politicians, religious leaders and so on want to blame everything but themselves. Johnny stole a car so he must have gotten the idea from a video game. Billy robbed a store and shot the clerk, he must have gotten the idea from a rap star. Sarah sleeps with everyone she meets, it must be that hip hop song. Why can't anyone take responsibility? If my kids knock off a 7-11, its because I failed at teaching them what is right and wrong. It was me that failed to teach them responsibility.

Parents can only do so much in educating their children. Peer pressure is an even bigger problem for children today and wanting to fit into a crowd can sometimes override whatever the childs upbringing. My eldest son is 14 and listens to commercial Hip Hop (I have tried and failed to get him off it!) which of course is misogonystic, full of expletives, glorifies crime and gang culture yet he does'nt hang around street corners, never causes any trouble and is polite to anyone he encounters. The problems are much deeper and complicated than you say. parents have a MASSIVE responsibility of that there is no doubt, but not everything is the parents fault.

Technology has got to a point where it saturates childrens lives and they are subjected to far more stimuli than when I was growing up, it is obvious that some media will influence children but no one section of it is responsible for bad behaviour.

Urban Hat€monger ? 03-13-2008 01:56 PM

Me & my parents had a deal going when I was growing up.

I could watch whatever film I liked listen to whatever music I liked as long as I didn't get into any trouble.

It worked 99% of the time.

jackhammer 03-13-2008 02:01 PM

Same here. I was watching the legendary Video Nasties of the 80's when I was ten and worshipping at the altar of Satan @ 14. Only kidding. I just hate the fact that one particular facet is to be blamed. The problems run far deeper than that.

Urban Hat€monger ? 03-13-2008 02:03 PM

It was a bit difficult for me to get away from video nasties.


My mother collected them all :D

jackhammer 03-13-2008 02:05 PM

I think I got my love of horror from my dad who let me watch them but he was and still is a good man who taught me right from wrong. I did'nt get my boozing from him so that once again proves it is not always the parents fault!

Predator 03-13-2008 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer (Post 454812)
Parents can only do so much in educating their children. Peer pressure is an even bigger problem for children today and wanting to fit into a crowd can sometimes override whatever the childs upbringing. My eldest son is 14 and listens to commercial Hip Hop (I have tried and failed to get him off it!) which of course is misogonystic, full of expletives, glorifies crime and gang culture yet he does'nt hang around street corners, never causes any trouble and is polite to anyone he encounters. The problems are much deeper and complicated than you say. parents have a MASSIVE responsibility of that there is no doubt, but not everything is the parents fault.

Technology has got to a point where it saturates childrens lives and they are subjected to far more stimuli than when I was growing up, it is obvious that some media will influence children but no one section of it is responsible for bad behaviour.

Do you think I'm saying that music is to blame? Depending on the child's upbringing, they will be more or less likely to give in to peer pressure and influence from artistic expression. No, it isn't completely the parents fault, it falls on everyone involved with raising them. I take full responsibility for what my children do. I have maybe 12 years to give them the moral foundation to build on. After that they will continue to build on what I taught them. I'm not for a second saying that after 12 years old I am no longer responsible for teaching them. I'm just saying that after about 12 years old, they learn from the world. They will interpret the world based on what I have taught them. If I don't do a good job teaching my kids that it isn't ok to hurt other people, they will be more easily influenced by violent tv and movies. They will be more likely to act out a scene from jackass. The point I'm trying to make is to do a good job and lay a good foundation so there is no need to hide anything from them.

jackhammer 03-13-2008 06:26 PM

--No, it isn't completely the parents fault, it falls on everyone involved with raising them. I take full responsibility for what my children do.--

You have contradicted yourself though. It's not completely the parents fault but then you take full responsibility for your childs actions? Having a child is the greatest responsibility we can have. I'm not that good at it, I just try to do my best and sometimes that is not enough. I appreciate what you are trying to say but until you have children of your own you can never take a moral highpoint until you have experienced being a parent.

Predator 03-13-2008 06:42 PM

Until I have children of my own? Get your facts strait before attacking me. I have 3 kids and was responsible for raising 2 nieces and a nephew when I was in my teens.

I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR RAISING MY KIDS. I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW THEY TURN OUT.

I will not stoop to blame anyone but myself if I fail.

jackhammer 03-13-2008 06:45 PM

Go ahead then. Why start a thread if you think that it's all your fault then?

Predator 03-13-2008 06:50 PM

Nice edit buddy

jackhammer 03-13-2008 06:52 PM

So do you think you have failed then?

Predator 03-13-2008 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer (Post 455010)
Go ahead then. Why start a thread if you think that it's all your fault then?

Because I am interested in seeing how other people view these hearings and how things changed. How does the parents responsibility weigh against the record industry? Should the music industry have any part in anything other than selling music? You decided to come in halfway through and and point out that I am wrong and it isn't the parents fault. My point again is that I have a responsibility to teach my children, all 3 of them, the morals to be able to cope with outside influences. I need to make sure that they know how to react when they hear somebody singing about gutting a prostitute.

Predator 03-13-2008 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer (Post 455017)
So do you think you have failed then?


No, because my children know the difference between fantasy and reality, at least as far as a child can.

Why are you antagonizing me?

jackhammer 03-13-2008 07:07 PM

I came in half way through? Apologies for not being there at the start of the thread. I cannot spread myself everywhere at once. If you had read my responses you would have deduced that there is a myriad of problems that afflict the youth of today and laying the blame at any one facet of society is narrowminded and short sighted. As for the gutting of a prostitute , I have no idea what you are alluding to but if you have that sort of music in your collection then it is up to you to censor what you listen to and what youre children are exposed to. The music industry has no moral obligation at this time to censor themselves. Judging by mainstream U.S tv, these acts would not get the time of day so if that is censored what is the problem?

Predator 03-13-2008 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer (Post 455027)
I came in half way through? Apologies for not being there at the start of the thread. I cannot spread myself everywhere at once. If you had read my responses you would have deduced that there is a myriad of problems that afflict the youth of today and laying the blame at any one facet of society is narrowminded and short sighted. As for the gutting of a prostitute , I have no idea what you are alluding to but if you have that sort of music in your collection then it is up to you to censor what you listen to and what youre children are exposed to. The music industry has no moral obligation at this time to censor themselves. Judging by mainstream U.S tv, these acts would not get the time of day so if that is censored what is the problem?


The part I made bold is exactly the point of this thread in the first place. The PMRC wanted to place the responsibility of protecting our youth from vulgar music on the music industry. My point is that it is the parents responsibility, not the music industry. Everyone has the right to raise their children however they want, I choose to take the stance that my most important role is in teaching my children higher morals so they can deal with the world without being ignorant about it. I feel that the only way that society can have a negative impact in my children's lives is if I do not take the time to teach them the difference between right and wrong. If I manage to give them the impression that popularity is more important than doing what is right, they will do wrong. My opinion is mine and I have no interest in changing anyones mind. I started this thread to have a civil discussion about how others feel about this subject.

sleepy jack 03-22-2008 03:46 AM

I'd like to resurface this thread to point out some things that I think we're missing before. Do you guys realize how ridiculous some of the arguments the PMRC were presenting were? The most ludicrous (and also frequent one brought up) was that AIDS is rock music's fault. I've been watching videos and reading interviews on this all night with Frank Zappa, Jello Biafra, Dee Snider etc because I'm bored and the after all this it's fairly obvious the PMRC's intentions had more to do with creating politically correct utopia America crap than simply letting the parents know what was going on. They're tactics we're laughable but they stunk more of fear mongering then they did of trying to protect the parents.

This is an accurate description for what I was talking about.


Farfisa 03-24-2008 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfred (Post 454080)
Ten year old kids shouldn't be listening to "Crazy Bitch" or "I Wanna **** You", but I don't see a problem with them listening to some milder stuff. It's really up to the parents. If they wanna let their kids listen to whatever they want, who is Tipper Gore to tell them otherwise?

I think kids listen to that kind of music because they think they would be socialy excepted by others because cursing is supercool to preteens and little kids for some reason.

TheJew 03-26-2008 09:54 PM

Parents can't and shouldn't be in total control of what their kids listen to.

Now, that isn't to say music that portrays violent sexual concepts is good in any respect. Hell, if you write music like that it just shows the lack of innovation and creativity the artist possesses. If you can't come up with songs with meaning and messages than you shouldn't be performing, period.

rockalternativeindiepunk1 03-29-2008 03:13 PM

Quote:

The bad news is that most purveyors of porno rock think they can get by with anything by simply accusing their critics of advocating censorship.
Is Porno rock a real genre?

GravitySlips 03-29-2008 03:33 PM

yeah it is.

digglefallen 03-30-2008 02:35 PM

"In another disconcerting development, some rock artists promote and glorify suicide. Ozzy Osbourne sings "Suicide Solution"; Blue Oyster Cult sings "Don't Fear the Reaper"; AC/DC sings "Shoot to Thrill." Every year half a million teenagers attempt suicide. More than 6,000 succeed. Yet too many of the executives of the rock record industry apparently don't care." -Tipper Gore

Well I don't really think Don't Fear the Reaper is about suicide....I mean if you wanna go there Stairway to Heaven could very well also be about suicide. But neither are, I think Dont Fear The Reaper is about how death is natural.

Anyway, yes in these twisted times I think we should have censoring. I mean songs abotu rape? That's horrible! Yes sexual inuendos have always been in rock, but theres a difference between inuendos and graphic immages.

sleepy jack 03-30-2008 02:36 PM

Why should songs about rape and suicide be censored?


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