The Fall of Deathcore (metal, rock, genre, tunes, quote)

tkpb938 · 01-25-2008, 07:02 PM

I totally agree. (not a very contributive post but whatever...)

Muzak · 01-25-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enemyat_thesix

I disagree with you, in that a very small fraction of these bands incorporate actual grind elements. Blastbeats do not equal grindcore, nor do fast tempos, short song lengths, or changeups.

Well I personally wouldn't call it real Grindcore but they try to draw influences from it. I call it "Scene Grind" because really it is just metalcore bands who think they are grind by adding brees, loud screaming and blast beats. I think while it isn't certainly the only qualities of grind, the things you listed are some that grindcore generally use.

enemyat_thesix · 01-25-2008, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer

Why after over 20 years of listening to metal am I still finding the same old arguments about the qualities neccessary to belonging to a certain sub genre of what essentially sounds the same?

No don't kid yourselves people. One form of metal is no different to the other, only in tempo or guitar pitch. The delinanation between genres is minimal. It always has been and always will.

Twenty years ago kid's were arguing about who had the heaviest riffs and who belonged to what particular flavour of the day sub genre. It has'nt changed one bit. The only difference is that there is even more sub genres to argue about and pigeon hole.

We need general genre classifications to differentiate of that there is no doubt but some of the criteria that is needed to be a a part of a particular scene is ridiculous.

Many metal fans should drop this pathetic pretence that what they are listening to is new and exciting and different to the other metal out there. GUESS WHAT? It is'nt!

It's a retreading of ideas and formulas that have been around for over 30 years.

The odd band will come through and have a different approach and have something different to say, but in general it is sad to see the genre in virtually the same state as it was 20 years ago.

Wow. I could not disagree with a post more.

Quote:

One form of metal is no different to the other, only in tempo or guitar pitch. The delinanation between genres is minimal. It always has been and always will.

Are you serious? Do you listen to Devourment and Nile and say, this is the same kind of music? I'm sorry, but you either have a very bad ear or are just lazy and want to label everything as being "metal", or "punk", "rap", etc. The truth is, subgenres are real, and possess distinct qualities, enough to set them apart from other their parent genres and sibling subgenres.

tkpb938 · 01-25-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Are you serious? Do you listen to Devourment and Nile and say, this is the same kind of music? I'm sorry, but you either have a very bad ear or are just lazy and want to label everything as being "metal", or "punk", "rap", etc. The truth is, subgenres are real, and possess distinct qualities, enough to set them apart from other their parent genres and sibling subgenres.

He's not saying all sub-genres are irrelevant, I think he's just saying that getting down to the nitty-gritty of what is and isn't in 2 very closely related genres is pointless.

enemyat_thesix · 01-26-2008, 12:34 AM

If you listen to All Shall Perish and then Suicide Silence, they're not very similar at all.

Voice_of_the_Soul12,13,01 · 01-26-2008, 03:08 AM

I remember at this percussion clinic I went to in school, this drummer was doing a seminar, and he said something that made alot of sense to me, and might be relevant here. We'll find out.

You take one drum set, and line up 30 or so drummers, and have them play a simple 4/4 rock beat. You'd think; oh, so what? They'll all sound the same. Nope. Each drummer would add something to the beat that can't be heard or seen, but felt, and that's where the uniqueness comes in.

Yeah, there are alot of deathcore and metalcore bands out there, and alot of them play the same chug chug bree bree breakdowns. But they all have something the sets them apart from the other. I could listen to Beneath the Massacre, Elysia, Job For a Cowboy, and Through the Eyes of the Dead (if you consider them deathcore) and while the musical ingenuity would all be very similar, they all have something that makes me think "This is why I like Elysia more than Red Chord," or "this is why I think Beneath the Massacre is better than Through the Eyes of the Dead."

If you hate the bands, I understand that. But don't generalize a whole genre or sub-genre. You could be missing out on something.

Frewen · 01-26-2008, 06:02 AM

What would The Black Dahlia Murder count as? I don't listen to a lot of metal on the hardcore influenced side (other than post-metal/sludge acts like ISIS, CoL, Neurosis, YoNL, Overmars, etc) but I was quite impressed when I heard some of their stuff. Even if they are one of the many bands 'borrowing' riffs from At The Gates.

enemyat_thesix · 01-26-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voice_of_the_Soul12,13,01

I remember at this percussion clinic I went to in school, this drummer was doing a seminar, and he said something that made alot of sense to me, and might be relevant here. We'll find out.

You take one drum set, and line up 30 or so drummers, and have them play a simple 4/4 rock beat. You'd think; oh, so what? They'll all sound the same. Nope. Each drummer would add something to the beat that can't be heard or seen, but felt, and that's where the uniqueness comes in.

Yeah, there are alot of deathcore and metalcore bands out there, and alot of them play the same chug chug bree bree breakdowns. But they all have something the sets them apart from the other. I could listen to Beneath the Massacre, Elysia, Job For a Cowboy, and Through the Eyes of the Dead (if you consider them deathcore) and while the musical ingenuity would all be very similar, they all have something that makes me think "This is why I like Elysia more than Red Chord," or "this is why I think Beneath the Massacre is better than Through the Eyes of the Dead."

If you hate the bands, I understand that. But don't generalize a whole genre or sub-genre. You could be missing out on something.

of course they sound somewhat similar in the broad scope of music. a lot of people would say all four of those bands sound exactly the same. however, if you've listened to enough of it, you begin to recognize distinct differences between groups of bands, enough to separate them into a separate subgenre.

Frewen: TBDM plays melodic death metal, or melodeath.

Voice_of_the_Soul12,13,01 · 01-26-2008, 12:33 PM

Not every band has it's own subgenre. Do you know how crazy that would get? It's crazy enough as it is.

jackhammer · 01-26-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enemyat_thesix

Wow. I could not disagree with a post more.

Are you serious? Do you listen to Devourment and Nile and say, this is the same kind of music? I'm sorry, but you either have a very bad ear or are just lazy and want to label everything as being "metal", or "punk", "rap", etc. The truth is, subgenres are real, and possess distinct qualities, enough to set them apart from other their parent genres and sibling subgenres.

What I'm trying to say is that all these sub genres are just rehashing ideas and sounds from each other and coming up with a supposed NEW sound when it is just a variation on themes. NILE and DVOURMENT seem poles apart musically. Listen closely and they are not too disimilar in there approach to music.

If a band takes an outside influence and comes with a different sound (say AGALLOCH) and proclaim a new genre, I would agree because not many bands will sound like them and they are approaching their songs from a completely different angle. Listen to this track and you wont have heard a lot of music that sounds similar, even though it's over 20 years old. If VOIVOD created a subgenre then I would agree again. (incidentally they just called themselves a Metal band)

I am not saying that sub genres suck. You are missing the point. what I am saying is that many many sub genres sound ridiculously similar.

01-26-2008, 03:08 AM	#16 (permalink)
Voice_of_the_Soul12,13,01 #1 Schuldinist. Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 420	I remember at this percussion clinic I went to in school, this drummer was doing a seminar, and he said something that made alot of sense to me, and might be relevant here. We'll find out. You take one drum set, and line up 30 or so drummers, and have them play a simple 4/4 rock beat. You'd think; oh, so what? They'll all sound the same. Nope. Each drummer would add something to the beat that can't be heard or seen, but felt, and that's where the uniqueness comes in. Yeah, there are alot of deathcore and metalcore bands out there, and alot of them play the same chug chug bree bree breakdowns. But they all have something the sets them apart from the other. I could listen to Beneath the Massacre, Elysia, Job For a Cowboy, and Through the Eyes of the Dead (if you consider them deathcore) and while the musical ingenuity would all be very similar, they all have something that makes me think "This is why I like Elysia more than Red Chord," or "this is why I think Beneath the Massacre is better than Through the Eyes of the Dead." If you hate the bands, I understand that. But don't generalize a whole genre or sub-genre. You could be missing out on something. __________________ I don't mean to dwell But I can't help myself When I feel the vibe And taste a memory Of a time in life When years seemed to stand still

01-26-2008, 12:33 PM	#19 (permalink)
Voice_of_the_Soul12,13,01 #1 Schuldinist. Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 420	Not every band has it's own subgenre. Do you know how crazy that would get? It's crazy enough as it is. __________________ I don't mean to dwell But I can't help myself When I feel the vibe And taste a memory Of a time in life When years seemed to stand still

01-25-2008, 07:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
tkpb938 Lvl 70 Troll Hunter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sunny Phoenix Posts: 482	I totally agree. (not a very contributive post but whatever...)

01-26-2008, 06:02 AM	#17 (permalink)
Frewen Justin Broadrick Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 151	What would The Black Dahlia Murder count as? I don't listen to a lot of metal on the hardcore influenced side (other than post-metal/sludge acts like ISIS, CoL, Neurosis, YoNL, Overmars, etc) but I was quite impressed when I heard some of their stuff. Even if they are one of the many bands 'borrowing' riffs from At The Gates.