Me too, but what makes a great song can vary.... It's not just some standard rock n roll fair with 2 minute songs... A verse/chorus/verse anthem with gibberish lyrics, a one note bassline, a guitar solo that mimics the chorus melody and a handclap section isn't all that consitutes a good song, open your eyes, theres much more to music than that... Listen to some classical or jazz, if you seriously consider it all wanking crap, then it seems that you have little appreciation for the evolution of music. :-/

:banghead:

Didn`t I just say I don`t have a problem with progression & musicianship as long as it works in the context of the song.

Yes, formula's suck. I just want to hear anything that sounds good.
This thread has gotten ridiculous. Bass is important. Plain and simple.

I do listen to classical , in fact thats one of the worst types of music you could have used to prove your point given the whole thing is conducted & anyone who tried to improvise or show off would be thrown out on his ear.

Your kidding...best part of the thread so far. Great debate.

Classical isn't know for its bass guitar work.

Some of the bassists that were suggested did make me think that 'good' can often equate to 'wank' (Jaco Pastorius for one. Technically amazing, but I've never heard a piece he played on that I liked... he even messed up that pop song with his farting bass), while others (like Wooten) really add a depth with their bass playing that supports what are already great songs.

All forms of classical music however, require a hell of a lot of technical efficiency to perform, timing is everything, and for a genre known for it's complex changes of time signatures and what not, timing is damn hard to keep up, every instrumentalist is showing off to some extent, cept maybe the guy who plays triangle, we all know that solo pieces are very damn important in classical music... Some forms of classical music is based completely around showing off... Neo classical being the ultimate example... Paginini did a lot of showing off, in fact, some consider him the first wanker, so to speak.

Oh but there is showing off in classical music. The Composeur he gets to choose what sections he wants to shine and many times there are bias's. And a lot of classical has extremely pertinant bass lines.

I think you could only aim that description at concertos, where the piano part was written by a piano virtuoso (Rachmaninov or Liszt for example) or the violin part was written by a great violinist (was Bruch?), as most orchestral or group classical was written with the overall sound in mind, not the complexities of the individual instrumental parts.

Yeah but thats the whole point of that type of music in the first place, thats how it`s written.

As I keep saying over & over again i`m talking about when it`s a detriment to the song.