Music Banter - Marilyn Manson

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- - Marilyn Manson (https://www.musicbanter.com/rock-metal/10674-marilyn-manson.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce (Post 1091582)

too much intellectual debate about what is essentially vacuity disguised as something else

Ironic, isn't it?

^^just like that death row inmate who gets a pardon, two minutes too late

ha ha ha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur (Post 1091576)

Manson's image is extremely calculated. I'd rather go to Cirque du Soleil to see strange visual things coupled with music than Manson expressing himself to me on stage. Unfortunately the multitudes in America will pick up/download anything that looks cool or pisses off their superiors and only for that reason.

Why is that unfortunate? Personally I'd think his music was worthwhile if it did nothing but expose uptight attitudes.

Antichrist Superstar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur (Post 1091576)

I don't feel that way. Manson's image is extremely calculated. Imagine the reaction from his fans if he all of a sudden dropped his image and came out on stage with no make up wearing only jeans and a t-shirt. As a point of reference, when Pantera dropped their 80's glam image in exchange for the one we all associate them with, I don't believe they did so in order to pander to a certain audience. In fact, I find that it was the other way around. Their years as a glam band were an effort to appeal to a trend that was hot at the time. When they just dressed like they normally would, I don't see how they could have been trying to appeal to anyone since metal was deemed dead by many in the early 90's pending the grunge explosion.

Pantera was absolutely trying to pander to a certain audience, or keep current if you will. When the 90s rolled around, looking gritty and "real" became the new cool thing instead of looking glammy so Pantera changed their look to appeal to the new generation of rowdy teens.

There's nothing like the classics. :)

Cake and Sodomy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1091631)

I don't see how you can pander to a dead scene. In 1990, metal was deemed dead and uncool. Alt rock was in. To me it seemed that when glam died, Pantera stopped worrying about being trendy and started to play the music they wanted to play and their image reflected that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur (Post 1091652)

Metal was dead in 1990? You could have fooled me. You could have fooled Slayer, Anthrax and Megadeth as well, all of whom released albums that year that were among their most critically acclaimed and best selling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1091712)

I was speaking of metal in the mainstream. Neither Slayer, Anthrax, nor Megadeth ever had a record debut at #1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur (Post 1091722)

I was speaking of metal in the mainstream. Neither Slayer, Anthrax, nor Megadeth ever had a record debut at #1.

You don't have to have your albums debut at number one to be mainstream. All of the albums I was referring to charted and had songs played on MTV and on the radio. They were most certainly mainstream. But if that's not mainstream enough for you, how about the fact that Metallica, Guns 'n' Roses and Van Halen all had albums debut at number one the following year?

Having a video in circulation on Headbanger's Ball doesn't make a band mainstream. If you really wanted to split hairs, one could make the argument that the Black Album, Use Your Illusion II, and For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge are more hard rock albums than they are metal but Far Beyond Driven is lightyears away from those albums in terms of heaviness. That's what makes that Pantera album unique. And just to clarify, 1990 was mentioned to signal the change in Pantera's sound. Their #1 record was released in 1994.