jwb

This is what makes him so interesting tbh

Its trendy on music forums to say tupac is overrated and he is, in the same seense that the beatles are overrated... literally no rapper can live up to the kind of hype surrounding an artist like 2pac

but he's definitely a rap legend and an interesting persona to dissect

he was sort of the tip of a spear of gang oriented west coast rap that dominated the 90's. he embodied the term thug life which he had tattood on his chest.

he wasn't an actual gangster but was flirting with it via his relationship with suge his death was literally triggered by him participating in beating down a crip in las vegas whose crew presumably retaliated.

and as OH says he was on a death trip. you can watch the trajectory of his mindstate through his music. me against the world introduced us to the tupac that was raedy to die. then all eyez on me took it further and by the time we got to the don killuminati he was already in his death spiral and died shortly afterwards..

me against the world:




all eyez on me:





The don killuminati:

SGR

Don Killuminati was released posthumously, about 2 months after his death.

2Pac, in my eyes, is a great rapper and was widely imitated (just look at labels like No Limit or the Ruff Ryders) - his influence can't really be overstated.

But coming to a conclusion on the 'best rapper' is pretty arbitrary - so much so that it's all but useless to try. Was he the best lyricist? (No, guys like Ras Kass and Chino XL are better). Did he have the best flow? (Nah, Pharoahe Monch and Jay-Z both flow better than he does, perhaps even Biggie). Did he have the most consistently good albums? (Not a chance, check out Outkast's discography or even EL-P's).

But he most certainly was great and is a legend in the world of hip-hop.

OccultHawk

Big will always be the goat.

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SGR

Big is great.

But I'd take Reasonable Doubt over Ready to Die any day of the week.

OccultHawk

Personal choice. They’re both unassailable for similar reasons. I’m much more in the RTD camp and consider it the greatest nihilistic self-eulogy / commentary on death work of art ever.

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Janszoon

Ready to Die any day of the week for me. Reasonable Doubt is pretty weak imo.

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jwb

Nah reasonable doubt is solid but Ready to Die is definitely better. And there would be no Jay without Big.

But the problem with Big as GOAT is he didn't have time to mature and develope. he was only 2 albums in when he got merked.

jwb

...suicidal thoughts definitely feels that way but the album as a whole... not so sure

i think prodigy of mobb deep and DMX both do just as good a job painting a nihilistic and bleak death ridden picture as big does. and pac does so too in his own way. "i'm ready to die right here tonight so mother**** your life." really pac was more ready to die than Big ever was. Big was collateral damage of pac's death spiral. I actually feel way worse for Big than I do pac.

OccultHawk

They lived though.

That and Gimme the Loot

Also RTD really ends with Suicidal Thoughts not Just Playing (Dreams) which makes a huge difference on how the album comes across plus even on the dirty version the verse quoted above is censored except on early pressings.

I get what you’re saying about their personalities though. I think in part that full suicidal **** is more suburban than street and pac may have had more Kurt in him than Big because of it but Big is scarier and comes off way more aggressive imo.

I also think it’s insane to say Big’s sound didn’t mature. **** the Beastie Boys would’ve been better if they’d all been shot after Licensed to Ill. Maturity sucks in hip hop. KRS-ONE is the worst example of that but the Beasties going all Dalai Lama was close.

I don’t blame people for changing because that’s life unless you’re emotionally stunted like I am but it ruins their legacy. I really can’t think of any musician who died too early except John Lennon and was 40.

I totally respect where you’re coming from though

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SGR

The Beastie Boys would've been better if they'd been shot before releasing Paul's Boutique? Come on now. I'd concede every other album, but not that one.

Personal preference, but the mood that Reasonable Doubt sets pushes it over the edge for me. That said, I think both albums are better than Illmatic. Reasonable Doubt is like the Godfather while Ready to Die is like Scarface.