Is 2pac the best rapper ever?

OccultHawk · 01-06-2021, 04:57 AM

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mobb deep and DMX

They lived though.

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suicidal thoughts

That and Gimme the Loot

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Yes, love, love your ****ing attitude
Because the nigga play pussy, that's the nigga that's getting screwed
And bruised up from the pistol whipping
Welts on the neck from the necklace stripping
Then I'm dipping up the block and I'm robbing bitches too
Up the herringbones and bamboos
I wouldn't give a **** if you're pregnant
Give me the baby rings and the #1 Mom pendant

Also RTD really ends with Suicidal Thoughts not Just Playing (Dreams) which makes a huge difference on how the album comes across plus even on the dirty version the verse quoted above is censored except on early pressings.

I get what you’re saying about their personalities though. I think in part that full suicidal **** is more suburban than street and pac may have had more Kurt in him than Big because of it but Big is scarier and comes off way more aggressive imo.

I also think it’s insane to say Big’s sound didn’t mature. **** the Beastie Boys would’ve been better if they’d all been shot after Licensed to Ill. Maturity sucks in hip hop. KRS-ONE is the worst example of that but the Beasties going all Dalai Lama was close.

I don’t blame people for changing because that’s life unless you’re emotionally stunted like I am but it ruins their legacy. I really can’t think of any musician who died too early except John Lennon and was 40.

I totally respect where you’re coming from though

SGR · 01-06-2021, 07:52 AM

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk

**** the Beastie Boys would’ve been better if they’d all been shot after Licensed to Ill

The Beastie Boys would've been better if they'd been shot before releasing Paul's Boutique? Come on now. I'd concede every other album, but not that one.

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Originally Posted by jwb

Nah reasonable doubt is solid but Ready to Die is definitely better.

Personal preference, but the mood that Reasonable Doubt sets pushes it over the edge for me. That said, I think both albums are better than Illmatic. Reasonable Doubt is like the Godfather while Ready to Die is like Scarface.

OccultHawk · 01-06-2021, 08:28 AM

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The Beastie Boys would've been better if they'd been shot before releasing Paul's Boutique?

In terms of legacy. LTI is just unmatched unbridled joy.

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Reasonable Doubt is like the Godfather while Ready to Die is like Scarface.

Interesting.

What’s Godfather 2 and does The Sopranos get an album equivalent?

SGR · 01-06-2021, 09:46 AM

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Originally Posted by OccultHawk

In terms of legacy. LTI is just unmatched unbridled joy.

Interesting.

What’s Godfather 2 and does The Sopranos get an album equivalent?

Eh, I think if Paul's Boutique was the last one, their legacy would be even better. It showed so much growth and creativity compared to LTI plus, no Rick Rubin. It would've left people wondering what could've been moreso than if LTI was their last one.

Not sure about the Sopranos but Godfather 2 could be Only Built 4 Cuban Linx.

OccultHawk · 01-06-2021, 10:27 AM

I like all their stuff but there’s LTI and after LTI

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Only Built 4 Cuban Linx

That’s a good pick. But I associate it so much with Liquid Swords I can’t have one take a unique role over the other like that lol

I don’t have a better answer though

Maybe the Wu-everything could be The Sopranos

And maybe Life After Death and Killuminati could be Godfather Two and Three

Three being Killuminati

~~jwb~~ · 01-06-2021, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

They lived though.

That and Gimme the Loot

Also RTD really ends with Suicidal Thoughts not Just Playing (Dreams) which makes a huge difference on how the album comes across plus even on the dirty version the verse quoted above is censored except on early pressings.

I get what you’re saying about their personalities though. I think in part that full suicidal **** is more suburban than street and pac may have had more Kurt in him than Big because of it but Big is scarier and comes off way more aggressive imo.

I also think it’s insane to say Big’s sound didn’t mature. **** the Beastie Boys would’ve been better if they’d all been shot after Licensed to Ill. Maturity sucks in hip hop. KRS-ONE is the worst example of that but the Beasties going all Dalai Lama was close.

I don’t blame people for changing because that’s life unless you’re emotionally stunted like I am but it ruins their legacy. I really can’t think of any musician who died too early except John Lennon and was 40.

I totally respect where you’re coming from though

I think Big had a few more classics in him. He might've had a slump or fell off completely but that's the risk you run. If nas died after It was written his legacy might've been great but we still wouldn't have gotten God's Son, the Nas/Jay beef etc. If Pac died after his second album he wouldn't even be talked about as such a legend. His last 3 albums were his peak imo. I get what you're saying about KRS etc but Big is on the other end of that extreme imo. Died right in his prime and before we got the chance to see what he was really made of long term. I don't think he's a bad choice for GOAT though.

Also, I definitely see what you're saying about Pac maybe having more of that stereotypical white boy angst. He started out as a theater kid. I think the main difference between Pac and Big was Pac made no distinction between his art and real life. He started preaching that gang **** as he literally came under the fold of death row and Suge, and ultimately he played with fire one too many times. I think Big had a more clear conception of the risks involved and that's why he wasn't trying to fan the flames as much as Pac was, especially after Pac died. Should've stayed the **** outta Cali though.

~~jwb~~ · 01-06-2021, 11:14 AM

Honestly I disagree with the RTD / Scarface comparison. Scarface really doesn't age well as a movie where as RTD is a timeless classic. If anything RTD is The Godfather and Reasonable Doubt is Godfather II. Plenty of people prefer pt 2 but the original set the template for the whole genre. That's RTD in a nutshell. Jay's whole drug king pin persona and flow are largely derivative of the template Biggie laid out. That's why he gets accused of biting Big's style so much.

OccultHawk · 01-06-2021, 11:26 AM

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RTD is a timeless classic. If anything RTD is The Godfather

Church

~~jwb~~ · 01-07-2021, 03:07 AM

Honestly hating on Pac/saying he's overrated is an online/white hipster trait. Hood niggas respect pac like catholics respect the pope. RIP to a legend. It might sound stupid but presenting yourself as Jesus on the cross is probably the biggest taboo a rapper ever broke.

The Batlord · 01-07-2021, 03:35 AM

Hood niggas like Lil Wayne. **** em.

01-06-2021, 11:14 AM	#27 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Honestly I disagree with the RTD / Scarface comparison. Scarface really doesn't age well as a movie where as RTD is a timeless classic. If anything RTD is The Godfather and Reasonable Doubt is Godfather II. Plenty of people prefer pt 2 but the original set the template for the whole genre. That's RTD in a nutshell. Jay's whole drug king pin persona and flow are largely derivative of the template Biggie laid out. That's why he gets accused of biting Big's style so much.

01-07-2021, 03:07 AM	#29 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Honestly hating on Pac/saying he's overrated is an online/white hipster trait. Hood niggas respect pac like catholics respect the pope. RIP to a legend. It might sound stupid but presenting yourself as Jesus on the cross is probably the biggest taboo a rapper ever broke.