jwb

yet but you're also ignorant to the history. He was a commercial success pre death row and pre the coast beef.

Plus he made the gangster image more mainstream them it ever was. There was a turn towards gangster rap before him on the west coast but he refined that image. Far from just riding on the bandwagon.

The Batlord

I like "Miracles" honestly. It's got some of their goofier lines even beyond the famous one but I find that **** charming tbh. They're not geniuses but they can still express some of the beauty in the world and make you feel a bit better than before you listen to it. And it's one of their more solid pop songs as well.

It's also got nostalgia for me as it was on the album that got me into ICP and I heard it five million times hanging with my juggalo buds getting drunk and smoking weed on my friend's deck. It was a trip to find out it'd become a meme but the meme isn't really what I associate most with the song.

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jwb

I also enjoy that song tbh. Cause they were trying to express wonder at the world around them and its corny as **** and yes somewhat idiotic, but it's still endearing.

Lucem Ferre

I literally said the opposite when I gave my opinion on them. They don't suck I just don't care about them.

He's one of the first, if not the first, rappers to get a brand deal. That alone should speak to his influence.

So you're just going to do that thing where I give you a legitimate thing he's had a huge influence on and mock it dismissively because you know I'm right but can't handle it. Okay.

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The Batlord

This song from the same album gives me some of the same can't-help-but-crack-a-smile vibes. It's not about the beauty of the world but it's still chill as hell and makes you want to kick back and crack a brew with the lo's and lettes.

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Lucem Ferre

I got into them in 2002ish when my friend brought a copy of Great Milenko over. He also had Riddle Box and Ringmaster. He hates ICP now but he still calls Great Milenko a classic hip hop album.

Never really liked Miracles. Never liked a lot of that album for being really bubbly and gross with songs like Love and Juggalo Island also being on it. Then again, I'm sad boy white trash so it's not really meant for me.

Edit: That's also the very beginning of me starting to not like ICP as much anymore. If that album came out when I was heavier into it I don't know if I'd have liked it.

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The Batlord

All three of those are better than any Tupac album.

These days I'm not very big on the album anymore but it does have a handful of classic tracks to make it worthwhile: "In Yo Face", "Juggalo Island", the title track, "Zombie Slide", "Miracles", and that bonus track "Chop Chop Slide" is one of the dumbest things to ever be great. I still regularly get "Zombie Slide" stuck in my head tbh.

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jwb

So by they don't suck do you mean they're good? Or mediocre? Regardless you then aren't being impartial to their quality. Even saying they don't suck is weighing in on that question in a non impartial way.


thus all sounds like the commercial success I already referenced.

Lucem Ferre

I guess dispassionate is a better word. As In I don't have a strong opinion about them.


If you want to over simplify it but it's more the way he exploited commercial success that makes him revolutionary. As well as being a pioneer in the bay area hip hop seen.

Edit: Like MC Hammer's endorsements and getting a cartoon and etc. were the beginning of artists using their brand to reach into different avenues and industries as well as artists using different avenues to support their brand. He was the predecessor to the trend of rappers becoming actors and/or getting their own clothing lines or what ever else. Back then it was lame, now it's a huge part of being a commercial rapper, more than any other genre.

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jwb

Those are all examples of his commercial success rather than his impact musically