jwb

As for beef.. Pac did not insert that into hip hop atb all. Rather he utilized the long standing tradition and format of beef to pursue his vendetta against bite for the percieved betrayal. In a way the east coast west coast beef was the climax in hip hop beefs, but certainly not the beginning.

If you have any interest in hip hop history I strongly suggest you check out the old documentary titled Beef, vols 1 and 2.




Yes the narrator is corny but there's lot good content here, and commentary by real hip hop legends spliced throughout.

Lucem Ferre

Nah, you're out of your depth here. 2Pac wasn't a gang member but he was absolutely gangster. His impact was immense and most real fans that aren't just faking it for hip hop points didn't look to him as a gangster rapper. They looked to him for songs like Brenda's Got A Baby. Well, kind of both. He was a real life representation of the complexities of growing up in the hood. He was the original "good kid in a mad city" that Kendrick became. The beef and his death were only pieces of his legacy.

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jwb

the only way to be impartial is to not be familiar with their music. If you have heard them then you undoubtedly would have some opinion.


now you're making spurious assumptions

I tried to like the songs you posted. I largely didn't.

I have tried to like jazz artists like ornette Coleman and sun ra. I don't. But I do like Coltrane. The same motive was behind trying to like all of them. But at the end of the day either i like it or I don't.





so explain to me what I'm missing. What's great about him exactly?

jwb

Brendas got a baby was on his first album. He evolved quite a bit over the years, and the thug life version was ultimately more influential than the conscious black power version.

The Batlord

Really? Cause in the earliest interview with him I've ever seen he's an exceptionally soft spoken, mature guy who sounds completely different from the entirety of his career. More like the guy who would shake his head at people in his neighborhood joining gangs and never say "thug life".

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jwb

uh not really since his fatal mistake was surrounding himself with known gang members and participating in gang violence

Being a studio gangster isn't at all dangerous.

jwb

how does that contradict what I said? You think you're breaking new ground with that interview? I've seen it before. He also part of the digital underground. This is all well known. Like I said he changed over the years, and i even explained why.

Lucem Ferre

Not really. I'm impartial to a lot of artists like Yin Yang twins. I don't hate the Yin Yang twins and I don't think they suck I just don't really care about their music


Must be familiar for you.

Yeah, I don't really believe that. You tend to re-frame things to fit what ever narrative helps what ever argument you make so I know you'll claim that.

How ever I highly doubt you listened to any with the attempt to like them. Even then, it's not about liking them. It's about respecting what they've done and acknowledging ability that you denied existed.

You full on admit what I said about you earlier on. Don't lie. Which is why I don't think you really tried to appreciate anything about ICP. The perception of liking ICP pushes people farther away from ICP than their actual music does.

It's also still weird to me when people use Miracles as the default ICP song when it's really nothing like most of their work. Chicken Huntin or Halls of Illusions are more like it.



His impact on the music industry as well as his influence on style including dance routines. Everybody from that era was emulating him except for the underground elitists that originally hated everything about him because he was the epitome of the commercialization of hip hop.

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The Batlord

You frame it in a way that makes him look good. I think he was a guy with actual beliefs who threw them away to make money by yelling "Thug life!" and "Money over bitches!" It's one thing if being a gangsta rapper is just how you want to express yourself but he was just a bandwagon jumping phony.

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jwb

you are familiar with their music yet have no opinion on how good it is?


it's true though. I really wanted to like free jazz. I just don't. In fact Coltrane's late stuff isn't great to me for that reason.

I tried my best to like them, not to say I'm not biased. I waited a full day to listen to the songs so the argument wasn't still freshly weighing on music emotions. I even managed to partially enjoy 2 if the songs. If you don't believe my sincerity then oh well. Not worried about it.



I said the thought of liking Coltrane makes you seem more cultured where as ICP doesn't.

But I like master p for ****s sake. I'm not at all above enjoying something that makes people think your taste is ****.

it's the most famous cause it went viral.





what was his influence in the industry
And lol @ dance routines