Lack of accountability in rap

adidasss · 07-09-2018, 10:13 PM

This is an issue that has been bothering me for a while and I can't really see many discussions on the topic, anywhere, least of all the music press. I'm struggling to understand why rap music and musicians seem to get a much bigger pass than other type of musicians. I'm not into rap music, but what exposure I've had to this genre, it appears that its history is full of homophobia, misogyny and just downright nastiness. It seems like there is some kind of double standard at play, if you are hateful in other genres of music your career is dead ( https://thump.vice.com/en_us/article...him-his-career ), but on the other hand if a respected rap artist utters some homophobic thing, they make a half assed apology and nobody thinks more of it ( https://highlandernews.org/31887/emi...ry-homophobia/ ).

One of the most egregious examples of this kind of double standard for me is A tribe called quest's Georgie Porgie. Here we have one of the most respected hip-hop groups of all time, writting one of the most virulently homophobic songs ( https://genius.com/A-tribe-called-qu...-porgie-lyrics ) that didn't end up on their second album simply because the label decided it was too much and which has never officially distanced itself from it. Now, try to imagine if Bob Dylan or Bruce Sprinsteen have in their back catalog a virulently racist song (and the occasional racist outbursts in other songs), which they have never publicly disowned, how would they fair today?

Thinking about more recent examples, Pusha-T's Story of Adidon was downright nasty, not just in its slut shaming (which is of course rooted in misogyny) but also for making fun of a seriously ill person, but Pusha was not called to task for his nastiness, he is on the contrary lauded for his effort.

There is any number of other examples where rap lyrics treat women like nothing more than objects: "On Feb. 24, 18 out of 25 of Billboard’s top rap songs—most of which are also classified as hip hop—had lyrics referring to women as “bitches,” “hoes,” or “whores.” While the core message of most songs do not line up with such belittling rhetoric, these words saturate the songs with misogynistic undertones, and their presence in so many top songs indicates how pervasive said undertones are." https://www.thecrimson.com/column/wh...-installment2/

To my mind this is just another example how homophobia and misogyny are still not treated with the same level of condemnation that we have come to treat racism, and in turn, that homosexuals and women, even in developed western societies, are thought of as less worthy of respect than straight people/men.

Nobody addresses the content of the lyrics in rap, most people simply judge rappers on their "flow". Most of the songs I hear are about bragging how much better you are than other people, is this what makes rap so attractive to its listeners?

How do rap/hip hop fans feel about this when they listen to these kinds of lyrics. Are there any female or gay rap fans here? Would love to hear some insight on this topic.

**Frownland** · 07-09-2018, 10:36 PM

So....do you listen to any hip hop?

Key · 07-09-2018, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

So....do you listen to any hip hop?

I came in wanting to ask the same thing.

simplephysics · 07-09-2018, 10:54 PM

He's not entirely wrong. It exists in hip hop but to generalize and heap everything into that category isn't right, no doubt. It doesn't really bother me as a female and it totally exists in other genres as well so I don't know why hip hop is being singled out. It's unfair to the genre.

**Frownland** · 07-09-2018, 10:57 PM

Misogyny is still widely prevalent in the genre but I'd say that the past 5 years or so has seen hip hop turning its back on homophobia.

simplephysics · 07-09-2018, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Misogyny is still widely prevalent in the genre but I'd say that the past 5 years or so has seen hip hop turning its back on homophobia.

I'd agree to that.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 07-09-2018, 11:06 PM

Fist of all, WELCOME THE FUCK BACK adidasss!!

It's all about the money. If hating or comforting a certain group is the ticket of the day, then it will be sung [or RAPPED] about.

simplephysics · 07-09-2018, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [MERIT]

Fist of all, WELCOME THE FUCK BACK adidasss!!

I'd agree to this too.

Key · 07-09-2018, 11:09 PM

hip hop is dope

Zhanteimi · 07-09-2018, 11:24 PM

Abstract and conscious hip hop are quite different veins from the misogyny etc OP addresses.

07-09-2018, 10:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
adidasss Slavic gay sauce Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Abu Dhabi Posts: 7,993	Lack of accountability in rap This is an issue that has been bothering me for a while and I can't really see many discussions on the topic, anywhere, least of all the music press. I'm struggling to understand why rap music and musicians seem to get a much bigger pass than other type of musicians. I'm not into rap music, but what exposure I've had to this genre, it appears that its history is full of homophobia, misogyny and just downright nastiness. It seems like there is some kind of double standard at play, if you are hateful in other genres of music your career is dead ( https://thump.vice.com/en_us/article...him-his-career ), but on the other hand if a respected rap artist utters some homophobic thing, they make a half assed apology and nobody thinks more of it ( https://highlandernews.org/31887/emi...ry-homophobia/ ). One of the most egregious examples of this kind of double standard for me is A tribe called quest's Georgie Porgie. Here we have one of the most respected hip-hop groups of all time, writting one of the most virulently homophobic songs ( https://genius.com/A-tribe-called-qu...-porgie-lyrics ) that didn't end up on their second album simply because the label decided it was too much and which has never officially distanced itself from it. Now, try to imagine if Bob Dylan or Bruce Sprinsteen have in their back catalog a virulently racist song (and the occasional racist outbursts in other songs), which they have never publicly disowned, how would they fair today? Thinking about more recent examples, Pusha-T's Story of Adidon was downright nasty, not just in its slut shaming (which is of course rooted in misogyny) but also for making fun of a seriously ill person, but Pusha was not called to task for his nastiness, he is on the contrary lauded for his effort. There is any number of other examples where rap lyrics treat women like nothing more than objects: "On Feb. 24, 18 out of 25 of Billboard’s top rap songs—most of which are also classified as hip hop—had lyrics referring to women as “bitches,” “hoes,” or “whores.” While the core message of most songs do not line up with such belittling rhetoric, these words saturate the songs with misogynistic undertones, and their presence in so many top songs indicates how pervasive said undertones are." https://www.thecrimson.com/column/wh...-installment2/ To my mind this is just another example how homophobia and misogyny are still not treated with the same level of condemnation that we have come to treat racism, and in turn, that homosexuals and women, even in developed western societies, are thought of as less worthy of respect than straight people/men. Nobody addresses the content of the lyrics in rap, most people simply judge rappers on their "flow". Most of the songs I hear are about bragging how much better you are than other people, is this what makes rap so attractive to its listeners? How do rap/hip hop fans feel about this when they listen to these kinds of lyrics. Are there any female or gay rap fans here? Would love to hear some insight on this topic. __________________ “Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle. Last.fm

07-09-2018, 10:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	So....do you listen to any hip hop? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

07-09-2018, 10:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Misogyny is still widely prevalent in the genre but I'd say that the past 5 years or so has seen hip hop turning its back on homophobia. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

07-09-2018, 11:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
Zhanteimi Mord Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tokyo Posts: 4,873	Abstract and conscious hip hop are quite different veins from the misogyny etc OP addresses. __________________ Zhanteimi LetsTalkMusic

07-09-2018, 11:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
~~[MERIT]~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 4,814	Fist of all, WELCOME THE FUCK BACK adidasss!! It's all about the money. If hating or comforting a certain group is the ticket of the day, then it will be sung [or RAPPED] about.

07-09-2018, 11:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
Key . Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 13,153	hip hop is dope