adidasss

This is an issue that has been bothering me for a while and I can't really see many discussions on the topic, anywhere, least of all the music press. I'm struggling to understand why rap music and musicians seem to get a much bigger pass than other type of musicians. I'm not into rap music, but what exposure I've had to this genre, it appears that its history is full of homophobia, misogyny and just downright nastiness. It seems like there is some kind of double standard at play, if you are hateful in other genres of music your career is dead ( https://thump.vice.com/en_us/article...him-his-career ), but on the other hand if a respected rap artist utters some homophobic thing, they make a half assed apology and nobody thinks more of it ( https://highlandernews.org/31887/emi...ry-homophobia/ ).

One of the most egregious examples of this kind of double standard for me is A tribe called quest's Georgie Porgie. Here we have one of the most respected hip-hop groups of all time, writting one of the most virulently homophobic songs ( https://genius.com/A-tribe-called-qu...-porgie-lyrics ) that didn't end up on their second album simply because the label decided it was too much and which has never officially distanced itself from it. Now, try to imagine if Bob Dylan or Bruce Sprinsteen have in their back catalog a virulently racist song (and the occasional racist outbursts in other songs), which they have never publicly disowned, how would they fair today?

Thinking about more recent examples, Pusha-T's Story of Adidon was downright nasty, not just in its slut shaming (which is of course rooted in misogyny) but also for making fun of a seriously ill person, but Pusha was not called to task for his nastiness, he is on the contrary lauded for his effort.

There is any number of other examples where rap lyrics treat women like nothing more than objects: "On Feb. 24, 18 out of 25 of Billboard’s top rap songs—most of which are also classified as hip hop—had lyrics referring to women as “bitches,” “hoes,” or “whores.” While the core message of most songs do not line up with such belittling rhetoric, these words saturate the songs with misogynistic undertones, and their presence in so many top songs indicates how pervasive said undertones are." https://www.thecrimson.com/column/wh...-installment2/

To my mind this is just another example how homophobia and misogyny are still not treated with the same level of condemnation that we have come to treat racism, and in turn, that homosexuals and women, even in developed western societies, are thought of as less worthy of respect than straight people/men.

Nobody addresses the content of the lyrics in rap, most people simply judge rappers on their "flow". Most of the songs I hear are about bragging how much better you are than other people, is this what makes rap so attractive to its listeners?

How do rap/hip hop fans feel about this when they listen to these kinds of lyrics. Are there any female or gay rap fans here? Would love to hear some insight on this topic.

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Frownland

So....do you listen to any hip hop?

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Key

I came in wanting to ask the same thing.

simplephysics

He's not entirely wrong. It exists in hip hop but to generalize and heap everything into that category isn't right, no doubt. It doesn't really bother me as a female and it totally exists in other genres as well so I don't know why hip hop is being singled out. It's unfair to the genre.

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OccultHawk

It’s still true that the only people an artist needs to be accountable to his own fanbase

The LGBTQBBQ people got all upset when Snoop first said “Frisco ****”

They huffed and puffed and it’s off the record now so is Biggie’s “I don’t give a **** if she’s pregnant- snatch the number 1 mom pendant”

But as the years roll into decades guess what? The people who buy the concert tickets and listen to the music just don’t give a ****. Money talks and bull**** walks.

The PC anti-fun police can’t stop it and if they start up with their oppressive moralism for all - it just sells more records - haha!!!

But... little PC puss wads like Kendrick “oh noes a white person sang my song” Lamar wants to be the new negro God Squad but none of the good next generation rappers give a ****. They wanna party and have a good time and that’s what they’re going to do.

Final note: Just FYI

Nihilism, self-degradation, and life’s not worth it are the most common themes in hip hop- from a literary standpoint hip hop’s closest cousins are Sartre, Nietzsche, and Dazai

The worship of drugs and money and celebration of criminal activity is second

Lyrical content like homophobia, mysogyny, and self-aggrandizement are all distant thirds

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grindy

Neither Sartre nor Nietzsche were about nihilism nor hedonism. I know what you were aiming at but nah.

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adidasss

First off, nice to see some familiar names WHO HAVEN'T CHANGED THEIR NICKNAMES 15 TIMES are still around.
I really can't place myself in your shoes but I hope that this "doesn't really bother me" attitude doesn't come from just a general desensitization to misogyny.

I'm also struggling to think of any major artist in other genres that depicts women in quite so vulgar and demeaning way or that could drop a "fa*got" in their songs and get away with it (like numerous rap artists have done, repeatedly). Not in pop, rock, indie, electronic music. Maybe some fringe artists no one pays attention to, certainly not chart topping. Maybe I'm wrong though...

Also, I absolutely don't mean to say that ALL rap is like this and that all rappers rap about are money, bitches and drugs, but a lot of it is...and that's the part we're talking about here.

I agree! At least people are being called out on it and made to backtrack somewhat. We are absolutely progressing. Still long way off from homophobia=racism though...case in point, Roseanne's career is finished but Lakeith Stanfield can just say he was "playing a character" and walk away unscathed...:/

Thanks!
And that's fine but my question is, why do the fans (mostly) accept this kind of behavior and just shrug it off?

I note a hint of derision with this BBQ addition so I continue with caution.
I don't really understand this reasoning, my question is, why is this fun? Is it fun to call women bitches and whores and reduce them to objects? Possibly for men, how about women? Do they matter? Racism is fun for racists, does that mean they shouldn't be called out for it?

I can't say either way, as I said, I'm not deeply involved in the genre, but what we're addressing here is the latter.

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“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

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[MERIT]

And now he's preaching and playing gospel music LOL.

Because the majority of people or mindless idiots.

Frownland

Misogyny is still widely prevalent in the genre but I'd say that the past 5 years or so has seen hip hop turning its back on homophobia.

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simplephysics

I'd agree to that.

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