Best rapper alive?

djchameleon · 05-03-2013, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

11. I will find the facts to back up my ridiculous statements about Jay-Z like him stealing all of his lines from other MC's and him saying he is of a higher calling (But he is yet to provide any evidence)

Manky, have you not heard Ether?

"How much of Biggie's rhymes is gonna come off your fat lips?"

Now let's review how many of them actually came off of his fat lips

14232949 · 05-03-2013, 09:12 AM

Takeover's a better track than Ether.

As for biting lines; as Jay-Z said in the first line of that video

"If I say a BIG verse, I'm only bigging up my brother"

He's aware of what he's doing, it's his way of paying homage to one of his influences. A large part of hip-hop is sampling and recycling other material. It's always been that way.
There's no way Jay-Z had 11 albums (solo, not including mixtapes & collabs) of just BIG lyrics. So there's more material which is original than stolen. Hardly stealing 'all' of his lines from others.

**Goofle** · 05-03-2013, 09:21 AM

Enough of these dry ass rappers man.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-03-2013, 09:28 AM

To be fair, Jay-Z takes it further than just paying homage. When you've got videos like that, 6 minutes long, and he's taking discreet 4's and 8's he's not taking well known phrases or one liners he's lifting actual bars, then it's past paying homage to be honest.

Ether was better. The idea of a diss is to humiliate the opponent surely?

[AUDIO] Jay-Z Crying On Hot97 After Hearing Ether!! Nas WON - YouTube

"Wow, like... wow"

"It's, it's far man"

Jay-Z was fucking upset. Nas won, he had him on radio stuttering and crying about it.

**Goofle** · 05-03-2013, 09:34 AM

Ether completely killed Jay-Z, that is not debatable.

SGR · 05-03-2013, 03:02 PM

I'm with Manky, I liked Takeover better. "Ether" seemed childish in comparison. Plus, a lot of what Nas said was opinion whereas the majority of what Jay said was fact. As a diss, they're both good though.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-03-2013, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundgardenRocks

I'm with Manky, I liked Takeover better. "Ether" seemed childish in comparison. Plus, a lot of what Nas said was opinion whereas the majority of what Jay said was fact. As a diss, they're both good though.

What like? 1 hot album every 10 years?

It doesn't matter if it was childish or not. Jay-Z's dub smacked of arrogance and wasn't as brutal, and considering how arrogant he came across, that it was him who ended up on radio like that is funny as ****. And it was him who actually started the beef, which makes it funnier. He came out of it looking like a total cock.

Quote:

You seem to be only concerned with dissing women
Were you abused as a child, scared to smile, they called you ugly?

That is funny as ^

Jay-Z was upset.

SGR · 05-03-2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens

What like? 1 hot album every 10 years?

It doesn't matter if it was childish or not. Jay-Z's dub smacked of arrogance and wasn't as brutal, and considering how arrogant he came across, that it was him who ended up on radio like that is funny as ****. And it was him who actually started the beef, which makes it funnier. He came out of it looking like a total cock.

That is funny as ^

Jay-Z was upset.

Nah, like

"Nigga; you ain't live it you witnessed it from your folks pad
You scribbled in your notepad and created your life
I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor"

It's well known Nas wasn't a gangbanger and Jay ACTUALLY did show Nas a tec 9 while on tour with LP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHOtnUW3QUI

Or this:

"So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong
You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song"

"Dead Presidents" was actually more successful as a single than "The World Is Yours".

and the best part of either diss song imo

"Because you know who (who) did you know what (what)
with you know who (yeah) but just keep that between me and you for now"

Jay got it on with Nas's baby momma and decided to include it on the song to really bring the diss to a personal level for Nas. And let's be honest, the whole "dividing" thing he did was cool as hell, he echoed the the majority's sentiments about his albums (at the time) and basically called Nas a one hit wonder. The reason I say "at the time" is because It Was Written has substantially gained favor over the years.

Anyway, the beat on Takeover is also much better. You got an angry Jim Morrison sampled (from "Five to One") and you also got a relatively new producer (Kanye) bringing the heat.

When you say that Jay sounded arrogant and that Takeover wasn't as "brutal", that's exactly what Jay was shooting for. At the time Jay was at the peak of his popularity and had nothing to prove. As a result, "Takeover" comes out sounding cool and collected from an MC that has no fear. I remember someone picturing it as "Jay sitting on a leather chair smoking a blunt while he calmly laid out why Nas had fallen off".

Also, Nas's claims about Jay (being misogynistic) are a bit hypocritical since he made a whole hit song ("You Owe Me") about getting a blowjob for letting a chick hold his jewelry. Anyway, those are just my thoughts.

~~Soulflower~~ · 05-03-2013, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

I'm not usually posting away on Music Banter at 5 am in the morning.

Real Talk's arguments in a nut shell:

1. 2Pac is a 'political' rapper, this makes him better than Jay-Z. (As if preachy content validates one as a superior rapper)

2. BIG (who only had two albums; largely consisting of filler) has a better back catalogue than Jay-Z who has 11.

3. You can't say anything bad about 2Pac or BIG's records because they're "classics" (Classic is a term he chucks around as if it means something, the albums he is arguing for are 'classics' those he argues against aren't, despite garnering more critical acclaim)

4. If 2Pac and BIG didn't die, Jay-Z would not exist (Despite Reasonable Doubt debuting whilst both men were alive)

5. 2Pac was not as commercial as Jay-Z. (Despite 2Pac's albums outselling Jay's, making him more commercial if anything.)

6. Jay is a business man. (Neglects that Pac and BIG had the same marketing schemes in place to enhance their image/sales)

7. Nas & Rakim are relevant to the conversation that has nothing to do with them. (but no other rapper is.)

8. Jay-Z is less influential because more people follow his style of rap

9. 2Pac was a famous Hollywood actor (despite never appearing in any successful film) but he was all about the music. 'He probably would have went into acting' but he is a rapper. Jay-Z is not a rapper because he has a clothing line.

10. I don't like Jay-Z because he talks about money and partying. (But I like Notorious BIG who does the exact same)

11. I will find the facts to back up my ridiculous statements about Jay-Z like him stealing all of his lines from other MC's and him saying he is of a higher calling (But he is yet to provide any evidence)

12. Pac's albums are more influential. (Despite being provided with evidence on the contrary, he still denies this)

13. Jay-Z is not a 'real' hip-hop artist because in his later career had a go at other things. (Unlike 2Pac, who he had earlier brought up his acting career)

14. I like the 7 Day Theory.

15. The original statement Mankycaaant made was Jay-Z was "more influential" than BIG and Pac. Despite writing 3 novels now, he is yet to disprove this.

For these 15 'arguments' and more, I decided to opt out the conversation as we were not making any progress.

Good.... because you dont know what hip hop is and you dont even listen to Nas, BIG, 2pac, Rakim, etc

You didnt even bother to read my responce or answer my questions after I took the time to read through all your contradictions, ignorance, assumptions and redundant arguements

If your going to criticize an artists music you should ACTUALLY listen to their music before making assumptions and judgements about it. All it does is show your arrogance and snubbish attitude about what you perceive their music to be.

When you said hip hop was about "shooting guns" I was through.

Completely disrespectful.

I said I was going to post the lines Jay Z has stolen when I have time because I wanted to take my time to gather and post them but that doesnt mean I cant back up what I say. Its pretty known knowledge that he steals lyrics and actual likes for BIG.

Nas destroyed Jay Z on Ether, no competition.

Compare lyrics:

Nas "Ether":
[2Pac talking]
("**** Jay-Z")
What's up niggas, ay yo, I know you ain't talking 'bout me dog
You, what?
("**** Jay-Z")
You been on my dick nigga, you love my style, nigga
("**** Jay-Z")

[Chorus]
(I) **** with your soul like ether
(Will) Teach you the king you know you
(Not) "God's son" across the belly
(Lose) I prove you lost already

Brace yourself for the main event
Y'all impatiently waiting
It's like an AIDS test, what's the results?
Not positive, who's the best? Pac, Nas and Big
Ain't no best, East, West, North, South, flossed out, greedy
I embrace y'all with napalm
Blows up, no guts, left chest, face gone
How could Nas be garbage?
Semi-autos at your cartilage
Burner at the side of your dome, come outta my throne
I got this, locked since '9-1
I am the truest, name a rapper that I ain't influenced
Gave y'all chapters but now I keep my eyes on the Judas
With Hawaiian Sophie fame, kept my name in his music
Check it

[Chorus]

[talking]
Ay yo, pass me the weed, pour my ashes out on these niggas man (no doubt)
Ay, y'all ***gots, y'all kneel and kiss the ****ing ring

[Chorus]

I've been ****ed over, left for dead, dissed and forgotten
Luck ran out, they hoped that I'd be gone, stiff and rotten
Y'all just piss on me, **** on me, spit on my grave (uh)
Talk about me, laugh behind my back but in my face
Y'all some "well wishers," friendly acting, envy hiding snakes
With your hands out for my money, man, how much can I take?
When these streets keep calling, heard it when I was sleep
That this Gay-Z and Cockafella Records wanted beef
Started cocking up my weapon, slowly loading up this ammo
To explode it on a camel, and his soldiers, I can handle
This for dolo and it's manuscript, just sound stupid
When KRS already made an album called Blueprint
First, Biggie's ya man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big
Dick sucking lips, why not you let the late, great veteran live

[talking]
(I...will...not...lose)
"God's son" across the belly, I prove you lost already
The king is back, where my crown at?
(Ill...will) Ill Will rest in peace, let's do it niggas

[Chorus]

Y'all niggas deal with emotions like bitches
What's sad is I love you 'cause you're my brother
You traded your soul for riches
My child, I've watched you grow up to be famous
And now I smile like a proud dad, watching his only son that made it
You seem to be only concerned with dissing women
Were you abused as a child, scared to smile, they called you ugly?
Well life is hard, hug me, don't reject me
Or make records to disrespect me, blatent or indirectly
In '88 you was getting chased through your building
Calling my crib and I ain't even give you my numbers
All I did was gave you a style for you to run with
Smiling in my face, glad to break bread with the god
Wearing Jaz chains, no tecs, no cash, no cars
No jail bars Jigga, no pies, no case
Just Hawaiian shirts, hanging with little Chase
You a fan, a phony, a fake, a pussy, a Stan
I still whip your ass, you thirty-six in a karate class
You Tae-bo hoe, tryna' work it out, you tryna' get brolic?
Ask me if I'm tryna' kick knowledge
Nah, I'm tryna' kick the **** you need to learn though
That ether, that **** that make your soul burn slow
Is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy or Dame Dummy?
Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he's Puffy
Rockefeller died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter
And that's the guy y'all chose to name your company after?
Put it together, I rock hoes, y'all rock fellas
And now y'all try to take my spot, fellas?
Philly's hot rock fellas, put you in a dry spot, fellas
In a pine box with nine shots from my glock, fellas
Foxy got you hot 'cause you kept your face in her puss
What you think, you getting girls now 'cause of your looks?
Ne-gro please
You no mustache having, with whiskers like a rat
Compared to Beans you wack
And your man stabbed Un and made you take the blame
You ass, went from Jaz to hanging with Caine, to Herb, to Big
And, Eminem murdered you on your own ****
You a dick-riding ***got, you love the attention
Queens niggas run you niggas, ask Russell Simmons
Ha, R-O-C get gunned up and clapped quick
J.J. Evans get gunned up and clapped quick
Your whole damn record label gunned up and clapped quick
Shawn Carter to Jay-Z, damn you on Jaz dick
So little shorty's getting gunned up and clapped quick
How much of Biggie's rhymes is gonna come out your fat lips?
Wanted to be on every last one of my classics
You pop ****, apologize, nigga, just ask Kiss

Jay Z- Take Over

[Jay-Z]
R.O.C., we runnin this rap ****
Memphis Bleek, we runnin this rap ****
B. Mac, we runnin this rap ****
Freeway, we run this rap ****
O & Sparks, we runnin this rap ****
Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap ****

The takeover, the break's over nigga
God MC, me, Jay-Hova
Hey lil' soldier you ain't ready for war
R.O.C. too strong for y'all
It's like bringin a knife to a gunfight, pen to a test
Your chest in the line of fire witcha thin-ass vest
You bringin them Boyz II Men, HOW them boys gon' win?
This is grown man B.I., get you rolled in the triage(?)
Beatch - your reach ain't long enough, dunny
Your peeps ain't strong enough, ****a
Roc-A-Fella is the army, better yet the navy
Niggaz'll kidnap your babies, spit at your lady
We bring - knife to fistfight, kill your drama
Uh, we kill you mother****in ants with a sledgehammer
Don't let me do it to you dunny cause I overdo it
So you won't confuse it with just rap music

R.O.C., we runnin this rap ****
M-Easy, we runnin this rap ****
The Broad Street Bully, we runnin this rap ****
Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it
Freeway, we run this rap ****
O & Sparks, we runnin this rap ****
Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap ****
"Watch out!! We run New York" -> [KRS-One]

I don't care if you Mobb Deep, I hold triggers to crews
You little ****, I've got money stacks bigger than you
When I was pushin weight, back in eighty-eight
you was a ballerina I got your pictures I seen ya
Then you dropped "Shook Ones," switch your demeanor
Well - we don't believe you, you need more people
Roc-A-Fella, students of the game, we passed the classes
Nobody could read you dudes like we do
Don't let 'em gas you like Jigga is ass and won't clap you
Trust me on this one - I'll detach you
Mind from spirit, body from soul
They'll have to hold a mass, put your body in a hole
No, you're not on my level get your brakes tweaked
I sold what ya whole album sold in my first week
You guys don't want it with Hov'
Ask Nas, he don't want it with Hov', nooooo!

R.O.C., we runnin this rap ****
B. Sigel, we runnin this rap ****
M-Easy, we runnin this rap ****
Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it
O & Sparks, we runnin this rap ****
Freeway, we run this rap ****
Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap ****
"Watch out!! We run New York" -> [KRS-One]

I know you missin all the - FAAAAAAAME!
But along with celebrity comes bout seventy shots to your brain
Nigga; you a - LAAAAAAAME!
Youse the *** model for Karl Kani/Esco ads
Went from, Nasty Nas to Esco's trash
Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage
Fell from top ten to not mentioned at all
to your bodyguard's "Oochie Wally" verse better than yours
Matter fact you had the worst flow on the whole ****in song
but I know - the sun don't shine, then son don't shine
That's why your - LAAAAAAAME! - career come to a end
There's only so long fake thugs can pretend
Nigga; you ain't live it you witnessed it from your folks pad
You scribbled in your notepad and created your life
I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor
(Me, that's who!) Then I heard your album bout your tec on your dresser
So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong
You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song
And you ain't get a corn nigga you was gettin ****ed and
I know who I paid God, Serchlite Publishing
Use your - BRAAAAAAAIN! You said you been in this ten
I've been in it five - smarten up Nas
Four albums in ten years nigga? I could divide
That's one every let's say two, two of them ****s was due
One was - NAHHH, the other was "Illmatic"
That's a one hot album every ten year average
And that's so - LAAAAAAAME! Nigga switch up your flow
Your **** is garbage, but you try and kick knowledge?
(Get the **** outta here) You niggaz gon' learn to respect the king
Don't be the next contestant on that Summer Jam screen
Because you know who (who) did you know what (what)
with you know who (yeah) but just keep that between me and you for now

R.O.C., we runnin this rap ****
M-Easy, we runnin this rap ****
The Broad Street Bully, we runnin this rap ****
Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it
Freeway, we run this rap ****
O & Sparks, we runnin this rap ****
Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap ****
"Watch out!! We run New York" -> [KRS-One]

A wise man told me don't argue with fools
Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who
So stop with that childish ****, nigga I'm grown
Please leave it alone - don't throw rocks at the throne
Do not bark up that tree, that tree will fall on you
I don't know why your advisors ain't forewarn you
Please, not Jay, he's, not for play
I don't slack a minute, all that thug rappin and gimmicks
I will end it, all that yappin be finished
You are not deep, you made your bed now sleep
Don't make me expose to them folks that don't know you
Nigga I know you well, all the stolen jew-els
Twinkletoes you breakin my heart
You can't **** with me - go play somewhere, I'm busy
And all you other cats throwin shots at Jigga
You only get half a bar - **** y'all niggaz

Talk about a weak ass childish come back not to mention Jay Z was the one that started the beef with Nas. Like I said before, Jay Z is not lyrically equipped.

djchameleon · 05-04-2013, 01:08 AM

You know what? I'm the best rapper alive and King of New York too End of discussion

05-03-2013, 09:28 AM	#324 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	To be fair, Jay-Z takes it further than just paying homage. When you've got videos like that, 6 minutes long, and he's taking discreet 4's and 8's he's not taking well known phrases or one liners he's lifting actual bars, then it's past paying homage to be honest. Ether was better. The idea of a diss is to humiliate the opponent surely? [AUDIO] Jay-Z Crying On Hot97 After Hearing Ether!! Nas WON - YouTube "Wow, like... wow" "It's, it's far man" Jay-Z was fucking upset. Nas won, he had him on radio stuttering and crying about it. Last edited by Cuthbert; 05-03-2013 at 09:34 AM.

05-03-2013, 09:12 AM	#322 (permalink)
14232949 The Big Dog Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,989	Takeover's a better track than Ether. As for biting lines; as Jay-Z said in the first line of that video "If I say a BIG verse, I'm only bigging up my brother" He's aware of what he's doing, it's his way of paying homage to one of his influences. A large part of hip-hop is sampling and recycling other material. It's always been that way. There's no way Jay-Z had 11 albums (solo, not including mixtapes & collabs) of just BIG lyrics. So there's more material which is original than stolen. Hardly stealing 'all' of his lines from others.

05-03-2013, 03:02 PM	#326 (permalink)
SGR No Ice In My Bourbon Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: /dev/null Posts: 4,326	I'm with Manky, I liked Takeover better. "Ether" seemed childish in comparison. Plus, a lot of what Nas said was opinion whereas the majority of what Jay said was fact. As a diss, they're both good though.