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#302 (permalink) | ||
Account Disabled
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
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Your definition of consistent is skewed. Consistency has nothing to do with quantity. In other words, Jay Z could release an album every single year that doesnt necessarily make him consistent and basing consistency off of quantity does not really reflect the quality of the album. We are not speaking of quantity albums. The consistency that Fluff and other posters are speaking about is artistic, authentic, creative and thought provoking albums which objectively Jay Z does not have alot of. Nas has been consistent for the most part since his debut outside of 1-2 albums. Outside of being consistent, Nas is lyrically superior and lyrically equipped than Jay Z. There is no competition. People keep saying Jay Z has skills but what are these skills? lol He is not an exceptional free style, battler or lyrist. His lyrics are elementary and lack depth. MC's like Nas make Jay Z look like a 1st grader trying to rap in a talent show. I know its harsh but its the truth. If you take all those catchy beats and producers away thats what it boils down too. Quote:
Wayne had the biggest first week album sales ever by a rapper and has the most top billboard chart positions by any other rapper. Yes, even beating Jay Z. I dont like Wayne but just saying.... |
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#303 (permalink) | ||||||||||||||||||
Account Disabled
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
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For one thing, gangsta rap is still very prevalent in rap music today so this whole "slighting NWA's influence" is absurd. Also, Jay Z success is largely related to things that has nothing to do with music such investing in owning clothing lines, NBA teams,etc. He is a very smart businessman but I dont see how this has anything to do with hip hop or music. His ability to adapt has nothing to do with his abilities or skills and more so to do with the producers and beat makers that he had around him. And having a million dollar marketing and backing helped as well. He latches on to the hottest rappers/artists at the moment to stay relevant like he did with Kanye West and like he is currently doing with Justin Timberlake. He doesnt need the money, I just wish he hang it up because his music is the same generic crap. But to imply that he has evolved "talent/material" wise is false. He is making the same gimmicky music that he made in the late 90s. His beats are just more in tune with the times. Quote:
I dont really like to lump BIG/Pac together because they were different rappers. Pac before he died showed that he cared about more social issues and wanted to gear his music in a different direction which I think would have continued after they peaked. Overall, Pac had more political music than BIG but that was not what BIG was trying to market. Quote:
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I dont think 2pac would even want to be as "mainstream" as he was during the 90s. 2pac probably would do more acting, do more hip hop activism, community outreack work and focus more on underground hip hop since that was something he became more interested in before he died. So if he is not mainstream, he would not necessarily have to change anything to get played on the radio. Which is why Nas is content with where he is. Its not about the hits/fame for him like it is for Jay Z. Out of the two, I could see Biggie doing what Jay Z does but with much better music overall. Quote:
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For one thing, 2pac never said things like "I am thoughtprovoking" like Jay Z does. Pac never tried to front about what he was. Pac said "Yea I know I act thuggish", "I smoked crack with my mother when I was young", "I am not perfect" etc BUT at the same time he discussed issues that affected people as well as affected him. He sincerely cared about the world and social issues unlike Jay Z who comes off contrived, conceited and is more into his money and image Pac did not just make social songs. He made social ALBUMS and these issues seemed to be things that he geniuely cared about BEYOND the studio because he would often discuss this issues in interviews, documentaries and with family/friends. Jay Z on the other hand doesnt do these things and he has never made a album as political and artistic as the "7 day theory" Most of the lines I hear Jay Z says is " I am the best rapper alive" " I have more money than you" " I am this and I am that" He hardly ever touches on wordly issues and mostly focuses on himself. Which goes back to why 2pac was popular. Aside from the talent, he RELATED TO PEOPLE and was relatable. You cant relate to someone who is singing about how much richer they are then you LOL Quote:
Once again you focus to much on quantity instead of the quality of the songs. Now Ive insisted since the very beginning that BIG was a gimmick rapper but he was a gimmick rapper with some good songs and some of those songs are actually classics. Regardless if he released two albums or not, the point is he has classics period. I wouldnt even place BIG in my top 10 but I am not going to sit up here and deny that he doesnt have classics. He died more than a decade ago and still has songs that play on the radio, clubs etc. Quote:
Your right.......... but it is a issue when the media is acclaiming you to be the best rapper alive and creative when in actual reality you steal most of your verses from other rappers. Yes that is a individual problem. DMX would fry Jay Z in a battle like country bacon. Jay Z couldnt kill anybody in hip hop either. You have to make real hip hop first before you can kill anybody in it lol Quote:
He isnt. I dont understand the point of your question Quote:
Jay Z is still a gimmick rapper. He does not make political rap music, period. Quote:
This conversation is not a comparision between Immortal Technique and Tupac though. This conversation is between Jay Z and Tupac and out of the two rappers Tupac is superior. He is lyrically superior and has stronger albums. (Not that it matters but) He also is more iconic and criticially acclaim. Quote:
Tupac is an international icon and there are many rappers that cite him as an influence and his influence is evident even in todays rap scene. Blueprint is not as influential as the 7 day theory or Me Against the World. Outside of the catchy beats on Blueprint what is influential about the Blue Print??? What kind of arguement is this? It just sounds like you are a Jay Z stan and you feel he is better than everybody even rappers that are far more talented than him lol The fact that you are aruging he is better than Nas, Rakim 2pac is embarrassing. LOL Quote:
The example that you gave about Pac rapping about "the black man being held down" actually IS a political issue that is by in large affected by the hegemony of white privilege in this country that has affected minorities for centuries. There are of course more rappers that were more political than 2pac but he arguably was more political than Jay Z and he seemed to care more about political issues than Jay Z. Quote:
Jay Z has alot more filler than 2pac and his strongest albums are better than his entire catalogue. Quote:
If you are implying that Jay Z is the best and there are other rappers that are better than him how does that have nothing to do with this discussion? I just used them as examples. They are more iconic in terms of "hip hop" and there contributions to the genre. They have more classic albums and material. They are far more lyrically talented songwriters and have more lyrically superior/creative/experimental/influential music than Jay Z. Quote:
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When did I say gangsta rap was important? I just simply insisted that its influence is clear in todays industry. When I speak of the "industry" I am speaking of the mainstream industry not undeground. Are you saying popular rappers like Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, etc dont have some elements gangsta rap music? I dont think its important either I just was trying to make a point. If you dont want to go back and forth with me... fine but you dont have to be disrespectful just because you disagree because all it shows is that you can not intelligently support your arguement so you have to revert to being childish. |
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#304 (permalink) | |
No Ice In My Bourbon
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: /dev/null
Posts: 4,325
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Jay-Z has an amalgamation of skills that make him a good rapper. He has a great flow, interesting lyrical nuances, and decent storytelling abilities. Plus he's got a good sense of song structure. Look at "D'evils" from his first album and how he talks about how he is kidnapping one of his old friend's baby-momma and is paying her to give the location of her lover. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mnyBp4FzzI or how bout his flow on "Can't Knock the Hustle"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORQOYpLaA9U I'm gonna be straight with you bro, if you don't think Jay-Z has ANY skills, you just don't know rap music. |
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#305 (permalink) | |
Account Disabled
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,304
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There isnt anything exceptional about his flow, story telling skills or lyrical nuances. He is average at best. His metaphors, word play and lyrics are not at an exceptionally skill level like Nas who is a talented songwriter and rapper. In other words, any rapper can do what Jay Z does. His skills are not special or at an exceptional level. That is why I said if you take away the beats and producers there isnt much talent there. The song is one of HIS better songs but it is not one of the best songs from that era. Ive heard more creative songs. I am a female by the way not a "bro" lol And you are using some of his better songs as examples but there are much better songs and lyrists than even those examples and I am going to post examples when I have more time. |
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#306 (permalink) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The Big Dog
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,989
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Most of it was opinion being passed off as fact, but unfortunately; yes I did read it. No doubt Jay-Z benefited from the death of BIG, I'm not saying he didn't. But your analysis that had he and Pac not died, Jay would not have had the same success is as you like to say 'absurd'. He managed to be successful without them and in case you didn't notice, it's completely possible for more than one hip-hop artist to find success. In all likelihood Pac and BIG would have wanted to work with Jay as he came up through the late 90's. That would help them stay relevant as Jay was hot at the time. You seem under the illusion that Pac and BIG would have never had a declining popularity. That hip-hop would have just been them two making albums alone until the end of time and nobody else would have had a career. As for which album has received more critical acclaim/success the facts don't support your statement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_Doubt_(album) The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Check the sales figures and accolades of each album. You're also forgetting that Reasonable Doubt was Jay-Z's debut. And with his debut he outshone Pac's greatest album. That's funny. Quote:
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He doesn't latch onto anyone. He works with them. Was BIG latching onto Big L when he worked with him? Was Pac latching onto Snoop when he worked with him? No. Stop being a hypocrite. Quote:
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Doesn't the fact that those albums sold so well contradict your earlier point about the marketing that Jay-Z uses. Pac and Biggie obviously used the same million dollar marketing schemes to catapult their records to such mainstream attention. I don't recall one 'top block buster' 2Pac starred in, but if that's what he was doing who's to say he wouldn't have ducked out of rap and went into acting. Leaving the scene for guys like Jay-Z to carry it. Quote:
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You see far more rappers using the same content Jay did than you see emulate Pac. Surely this means Jay-Z's more influential. Quote:
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I also challenge you to find Jay lyrics that same any of what you mentioned. Quote:
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Let's guess it's because they're 'Classics' Please explain how they're 'classics' though. Quote:
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What makes 'real' hip-hop? Shooting each other with guns? Does that make 2Pac and BIG 'real' hip-hop artists? Quote:
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I've explained in my posts to Fluffy Kittens, why I favour The Blueprint. Outwith saying they're 'political' or 'classics' I'd like you to explain why you feel 7 Day Theory and Against the World are better albums. Quote:
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"It doesn't have to be about government, but is has to be about things that affect the government?" And social issues; aren't social issues they are in fact political issues, are they? I sure as hell hope you never have to explain to a class of children what 'political' means. Quote:
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The irony. Quote:
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Do you read anything you write? I've proved many many times how ill-informed and hypocritical your points are. Quote:
And with that, I depart. Oh by the way, you also intelligently misspelt 'argument' I have given you all the reasons your statements are misguided and talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You have got yourself into a little frenzy and have never been able to disprove what I originally said. Good bye. Last edited by 14232949; 05-01-2013 at 02:56 PM. |
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#308 (permalink) | |
A.B.N.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NY baby
Posts: 11,451
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I'm waiting on the sidelines to jump in like it's double dutch but I'm deciding on the write time so I don't have to quote so much.
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Fame, fortune, power, titties. People say these are the most crucial things in life, but you can have a pocket full o' gold and it doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have someone to share that gold with. Seems simple. Yet it's an important lesson to learn. Even lone wolves run in packs sometimes. Quote:
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#309 (permalink) | |
Neo-Maxi-Zoom-Dweebie
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 3,752
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Reminded me of this. I always check out these whos the best/worst in the rap game archives. I love that ****. |
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#310 (permalink) | ||
A.B.N.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NY baby
Posts: 11,451
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__________________
Fame, fortune, power, titties. People say these are the most crucial things in life, but you can have a pocket full o' gold and it doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have someone to share that gold with. Seems simple. Yet it's an important lesson to learn. Even lone wolves run in packs sometimes. Quote:
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