Always?

Black Thought. From the moment I saw The Roots on second stage Lollapalooza you could feel there was something special about him and the group. I think he currently is legendary status. Out of the new crew, Mf Doom is definitely a trailblazer.

nah, just generally ;)

But that wasn't the last big thing for rap in the 80's. It was really gangsta rap that was the last innovative thing. That was hot in 88 and is still very much visible in today's scene. There are other areas of rap of course that are seen today and was seen in the 90's but none that I would call "innovative." Even the electronic/sampling was done in the 80's, political/social rap, party gimmick rap, etc. These topics/sounds were repeated in the 90s and currently, nothing new.

i would have to disagree

just saying gangsta rap is so generic, what are you talking about kool g rap or nwa? nwa gave rise to ice cube/g-funk style gangsta rap which mostly manifested in the early 90's. it had its roots in the late 80's with too $hort and all that but really it wasn't refined until dre/snoop/warren g/2pac/etc jumped on board.

where as you did have some gangsta rap on the east coast like maybe kool g or bdp but they sounded nothing like the later hardcore east coast stuff... bcc, wu tang, mobb deep, there's nothing innovative there? find me an album from the 80's that sounds anything like the infamous. or 36 chambers. or even ready to die or illmatic.

Like I said, these genres were conceived and birthed in the 80's. However, its very possible the other variations and influences of these genres in later years have been more creative OR just as creative but it still does not change that these genres were birthed in the 80's and I don't think gangsta rap was generic in the late 80's or even early 90's.

I think it was created to make a point...and it did but that is a WHOLE nother conversation....

and rap in general was birthed in the 70's... does that mean that 80's rap isn't innovative because they were expanding on an earlier tradition?

i'm saying you're painting with too broad a brush if you are going to say that kool g rap or nwa were no different from mobb deep or death row and that there was no innovation between those two eras.

in the late 80's they sketched the blueprint for what 90's rap would sound like. but they didn't start building till the release of the chronic.

No because there was still innovative things being contributed to rap and hip hop in the 80's.

Also, I was specifically referring to gangsta rap and the albums you used as examples when I was referring to these "genres" gangsta rap and the sub genres of gangsta rap that was what I was referring to not "rap music itself"


Lastly, as I mentioned in my previous posts I agree there probably were more creative experimentation in the 90s with certain concepts in rap BUT that still does not make it necessarily original or innovative especially when in the 80's it was already done even if it was on a basic level.

For example, "The Chronic" while good and made an impact in popularizing gangsta rap it is not innovative for the genre. How can this album be innovative when few years prior "Staight Outta Compton" innovated gangsta rap and influenced The Chronic.

You see my point?

Popularizing a genre and innovating something from scratch are two different things.

no, i really don't see your point. straight outta compton sounds nothing like the chronic. straight outta compton honestly sounds as much like public enemy as it does death row era g-funk. the style of production on the chronic was groundbreaking for its time and really marked a shift in the sound of west coast rap in general. so i don't get how you can say there's nothing original or innovative there. you're basically saying that taking a style and experimenting with it and tweaking it to turn it into a distinct sound is not innovation, when to me that is precisely what innovation means.

I am speaking in terms of creating gangsta rap.

The Chronic did not innovate "gangsta rap" it did not give birth to that genre, thats all I am saying.

I am not saying its not important or trying to take away from it.