yea like i said i'm not disputing that rapping is also a style of vocals that can be used outside of rap music. but rap music/hip hop is defined specifically by the fact that the emphasis is on those vocals. like ratm raps too but there is a lot of emphasis on how their band sounds so it's not actually rap music.



yea, i see where you are coming from. in terms of production it doesn't seem to draw too much from american hip hop. i was really under the impression that it was about the rapper for grime too. tbh i think dizzee can spit pretty decent. thinking about it more i really dont even think that instrumental hip hop like rjd2 etc should be considered the same genre as actual rap music.

Yeah think we agree in general tbh.

British people do the same as you in thinking that British 'rapping' music from a certain place or time, is Grime.

Goofle asked if it matters on page one.

For me it does to an extent.

It doesn't matter in terms of good music or bad music. I enjoy for example Dot Rotten's earlier CD's even though they are very Hip-Hop sounding. But I am fed up of tuning into pirate radio and live sets, expecting Grime, only to have the DJ play Trap music. I like Grime in my Grime sets. Weird, I know.

Those 'This is UK Grime' CD compilations annoy me as well.

Also native Australian music.

some more thoughts after thinking about it a bit...

really like you said people call that lauryn hill **** 'hip hop' but they wouldn't call it rap i don't think. but they would easily call wu tang rap. so maybe hip hop and rap aren't one in the same actually. here's how i basically see it after thinking about it and keeping in mind what krs was getting at.

he was probably talking about the whole 'hip hop is a culture' angle... where it included break dancing and graffiti as part of the movement too. which is how it started. but hip hop music is usually just a rapper going over beats. but then again they call that lauryn hill **** hip hop, and that dj shadow **** hip hop. but that's not rap music. so i guess hip hop (or grime) is the sound. rap is just music where dude is just rapping over a beat. regardless of whether its hip hop or grime. so i'd still call that dizzee rascal **** rap. and i'll say it's grime too cause of the beat. so it's rap but not hip hop. but like that other **** you sent me with no rap vocals is obviously not rap. i dunno this might sound confusing but it makes sense to me lol.

A generalized difference between rap and hip hop would be the emphasis on and style of the instrumental. Those heavily influenced by jazz, blues, r&b, and other black musical traditions could be labeled "hip hop". Those songs shying away from concrete elements of the listed genres are often labeled "rap". Just an observation.

Hiphop is a culture (the 4 elements). Rap is the genre, which is often referred to as hiphop; a short for hiphop music which means music associated with the hiphop culture. Similar to how you hear hiphopper/hiphop head being short for a person associated with hiphop culture.

When people hear rap and say "that's not hiphop", they are saying its not what hiphop culture represents. "That music is not part of us".

This is how I've always understood it.

:rofl:

:banghead:

I would say Grime could definitely be considered Rap music. But defintely could not be considered Hip-Hop Music, it has absolutely nothing to do the the culture or the music.

i agree

Ah that post shouldn't have been deleted. There are loads of Grime songs that don't talk about how hard someone is.