Is rap considered music?

**Frownland** · 12-11-2014, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanche_Minim

I would rather listen to preaching in church, than pointless yapping. I consider the lyrics of rapping to be dumb literature. I would rather listen to Shakespeare, than rap.

Rhyming in structural patterns? I would rather listen to a melody made by a genius, who studied and analyzed composition and went to school, than some thug, who dropped out of fifth grade. Don't start mentioning Tupac or Jay-Z or something, I personally don't consider them heroes or poets.

Like I said, liking it and considering it music are two very different things. You're also leaving out a wealth of emcees who put a lot of thought into their lyrics, not every hip hop artist spends every track talking about money and hoes. You're not going to listen because you have your mind made up, but here's a verse from "Soft Places" by Armand Hammer. Doesn't sound like dumb literature to me.

Sold it
Rash moment
Those beans better've been magic homie
"Gotta have hope jack!"
Go ahead and quote it
Smile broken when they broke in
Blind how they stole him
Rip un-woken
Fog rolling off the ocean
Wandering rōnin lay down prepared to meet that fine little pony
Looping Saharan cellphone music
Greets the retreating Romans
Rope and limb, woods dark
Trees groaning
Then he rose and wept without knowing

Machine · 12-11-2014, 08:34 PM

So part of your main argument let me get this straight you don't believe the beats are music? Before I go on I need to ask why?

Zhanteimi · 12-11-2014, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanche_Minim

I consider the lyrics of rapping to be dumb literature. I would rather listen to Shakespeare, than rap.

Before you get too high and mighty, please remember that Shakespeare wrote plays for Londoners on half-holiday. Which means he was common entertainment for the common man.

DeadChannel · 12-11-2014, 11:31 PM

When you see a movie that you dislike, would you say "this isn't a movie"?
When you don't like a novel, do you say "this isn't a book"?

No, you don't, because that would be insane.
So, then, why is it okay to say that X isn't music?

You clearly dislike hip hop, which is fine, but that doesn't make it not music. That's delusional.

Also, you can get a lot more removed from what is traditionally considered music than hip hop.

Thelonious Monkey · 12-12-2014, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadChannel

When you see a movie that you dislike, would you say "this isn't a movie"?
When you don't like a novel, do you say "this isn't a book"?

No, you don't, because that would be insane.
So, then, why is it okay to say that X isn't music?

You clearly dislike hip hop, which is fine, but that doesn't make it not music. That's delusional.

Also, you can get a lot more removed from what is traditionally considered music than hip hop.

That's a really good point you bring up. On the subject of what isn't or is music, would YOU consider this music?

People (frownland) consider it to be, but I will never understand why. I consider it art, but not music. But I'm curious as to what you have to say, since your a fairly new member, and you bring up some good points.

DwnWthVwls · 12-12-2014, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanche_Minim

Rhyming in structural patterns? I would rather listen to a melody made by a genius, who studied and analyzed composition and went to school, than some thug, who dropped out of fifth grade. Don't start mentioning Tupac or Jay-Z or something, I personally don't consider them heroes or poets.

How's this? White dude, non-thug, intelligent lyrics, and a solid flow. This is the song my signature quotes. You may not like it as music but you can't deny the intelligence behind the writing.

Quote:

Blood moon about to burst
Spill the secrets of seekers it revealed along the search
Teach us to be supreme leaders we must know the worth
Of the science behind the lines drawn back to old earth
Coded by birth, son of the Coven of the Catta
Semi-aquatic being started breathing underwater
When the rains came, washed away the sin of my enemy
Surfaced with a new verve, current purged me of enmity
My sympathies extended by centimeters and inches
Seen how many men have been senselessly pitted against us
I know the road to Hades is paved with sweet intentions
But killers, cheaters and villains is chillin deep in the trenches
Keep on the leading the infantry, we can just see the entrance
The grand vision of its magnificence in the distance
Our patience and persistence 'bout to pay off in an instant
Can't wait to introduce you to the proof of your existence

The benediction been offered up in your honor
Come and have a seat at the feet of mother and father
Take a taste of the fruition of the seed of the farmer
Drink of the cup of plenty, want for nothing any longer
Sanctify my soul as I prepare the poor acknowledgement
An utterance of praise is all I gave unto the goddesses
Merciful are they to make a space for the incompetent
Figured I'd been forgotten for failing to scale the monument
Followed the trail of documents, found they doctored the authorship
Fraudulent scholars, postured in front of commoners
Got em all up in arms, they hollering, paying homage
I'm watching em from the margin caught up in my own astonishment
Stop and ponder the obvious: how are you not a sophist?
Are you not a philosopher trotting around as prophet?
Are you honestly moderate, modest, spotless or flawless?
I take account of mines and try to be conscious of all of this and

Let it go... Let it come...
Let it be... Never done...
Open me... Let me out...
Repurpose me... I'm ready now.

Trials filter through my faculties
Each a badge of her honor, colored patches on my tapestry
Cloaked over my shoulders, I hold it closer to balance me
You acting like you haven't been challenged to your capacity
Walk more, talk less, absorb, process
Feel your way around the scents and sounds of darkness
Come into your conscience, congress, conference
Calmness -- silence the preponderance of nonsense
Execute your action -- implement your strategy
Practice on the internalization of your majesty
Bow before no oligarch, pray to no diaconate
Own the fact your station was not created by accident
Peace to the establishment, death to evil's agency
Known to be abrasive, polished stone is what they made of me
Grateful for the mechanism, hateful towards machinery
Bottom end, try and comprehend just what it means to me to

Let it go... Let it come...
Let it be... Never done...
Open me... Let me out...
Repurpose me... I'm ready now.

DwnWthVwls · 12-12-2014, 12:44 AM

How about this one?

Quote:

[Illogic]
I hate when it rains, cause in puddles I encounter this guy
Unable to give a rebuttal but swift as the pain flood his eyes
wonderin why he's a gift with no purpose
A priceless one-of-a-kind piece that's worthless
Grounded with no surface
And when he shows one, it's a facade
Cause inside he fights feelings that he was mistake by God
I see his confusion and self-deception
Questions of relevance and intelligence
He holds an illusion of self-acceptance
that he shows to those outside lookin in
He's outside lookin in to his own life; lookin for strength
to carry on as a pawn in this chess game of existance
In his mind he wants to go on to the dawn
and leave the stress that came with existance
Hopin in death he'll find life
Cause as he lives, he roams the dark, tryin to find light
He's made his heart so hard, he doesn't even cry anymore
Cause he's confronted sorrow frequently
His heart's been broken frequently
It's like he's lost some part of him and just haven't found it yet
So in his search, he's left with nothin but questions and regret
All he wants to know is how one day, he's content
and the next day he's cryin
cause his life isn't what he thought life meant
He just wants to be happy, with his love and all
But too often I get messages through telepathic calls
He's askin me through a puddle what more must he endure to continue
But for some reason he knows he most endure to continue

[Chorus]
When I walk past puddles, my reflection calls beggin me
to answer his questions about life and his perceptions
and tell him why I hate him so much
And you wonder why I hate him so much?
Now when I walk past puddles, my reflection calls beggin me
to answer his questions about life, and his perceptions
and tell him why I hate him so much
Damn, I wonder why I hate him so much

[Illogic]
Why did I hate him so much? I wondered, pondered on the question
What in my mind caused me to despise my reflection?
I didn't know I just knew when I saw him, how I felt
and hated the fact that he had to play with the cards that he was dealt
He's come in contact with some ill things that can't be explained
Life's extracted his energy to where the pain can't be contained
So to me he comes, sheddin tears like skin
Intimate with some, only the ones he calls friends
If he even exists, he only exists in pain
It's like his life is a myth
and he's been blessed with the gift of shame, I mean
From birth to love he's been betrayed
He's an unknown in how to cope with that pain and dissapointment
he's come to know as he's grown
He feels he stands alone in this world of puddle images
And he awaits the time for when, time finishes
He tries to elevate thought, but he's still chillin in the basement
Awaitin a rebirth of his soul as it fears it's spiritual placement

[Chorus]

[Illogic]
God I pray you can give me a purpose or help me find it
Cause on this narrow path of self-damnation, I can't find it
Is it somethin I need to know, some way I need to grow
to get out of this rut, God give me some self-trust
Love is somethin I'm lookin for but I've found it, or have I?
I wanna live but can I, or do I have to die to?
I try to, have life but my life seems kinda worthless
as I'm starin at this puddle
God I pray that you can give me a purpose or help me find it
Cause on this narrow path of self-damnation, I can't find it
Is it somethin I need to know, some way I need to grow
to get out of this rut, God please give me some self-trust
Love is somethin I'm lookin for - thought I found it, or have I?
I wanna live but can I, or do I have to die to?
I try to, have life but my life seems kinda worthless
as I'm starin in this puddle

[Chorus]

[music changes]

[Illogic]
I sit alone in dismal silence
Peering into the eyes of my reflection
Wondering if his thoughts are adjacent to my own
What visions of eerie savagery
are passing if purity lurks in the mind of he who I mirror?
Lookin at him I am disgusted
He lacks beauty in all external areas
and internally he seems so confused
Perplexed with this conundrum of life
He proceeds to function or cope, lookin at it realistically
Esteem he lacks, in all areas of existance
Reason unknown
What is the cause of the lack of this self-acceptance?
I mean it seems like he needs constant assurance
Some type of ritual proof that he's even worth the oxygen he breathes
A, light that shines upon him
Is his living in vein? Does he have a purpose?
Answer - eternally unknown

DeadChannel · 12-12-2014, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinJJustin

That's a really good point you bring up. On the subject of what isn't or is music, would YOU consider this music?

People (frownland) consider it to be, but I will never understand why. I consider it art, but not music. But I'm curious as to what you have to say, since your a fairly new member, and you bring up some good points.

I'm not sure, but I'll have to give it some thought. It was created with musical intent, which is usually enough for me, but this is a bit different.

I suppose that this is about the variations on how a given listener perceives it, which is interesting.

If I had a book filled with blank pages, I would still call it a book, but I would be referring to the object. I'm not sure if I would consider it literature. However, a book can't really ever be blank, can it? It will always have small imperfections in the paper. That's similar to the "silence" in 4'33

I'll try another example. Suppose I make a film of solid black for a given amount of time. There are little scratches and imperfections in the print of the film. This is the same as well, is it not?

So, that was a long winded way of saying that I don't really know. I'm not closed to the idea of it being music, though.

The Batlord · 12-12-2014, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadChannel

So, that was a long winded way of saying that I don't really know. I'm not closed to the idea of it being music, though.

Are you not closed to the idea because you're honestly open to it? Or do you just not want people artier than you to think you're a Philistine? Come on. You know it isn't music. Admit it. Come oooooon.