Soulflower

Jay Z is a mediocre songwriter. He needs to stop "talkin lik dis" when he is 44.



If white people did not destroy Hip Hop then who did????

They destroyed it because they know why it was created and then once it got into the mainstream, they stripped it and reversed the purpose of it.

The rap music on the radio exploits black people and it is a disgrace.

Corporate America knows exactly what its doing.

CoNtrivedNiHilism

I think I will just address this here...

The majority of rap or hip hop artists today talk like they never developed their speech past the 2nd grade haha. So I don't see what you were getting at there.

Before I go further. Let me just say that I think you're an alright guy. For the most part. You're articulate to some degree, and display at least some kind of competence. Now for the rest of what I want to tell you, rather point out to you...

The passion or pride you have for your culture, the ethnicity you're a part of. It's a beautiful thing man. For all the things your culture, African Americans have contributed to America, I don't think get the recognition or recognized enough at all for the contributions made to this country. For that I apologize because your people work damn hard to get by day to day.

Now. Here is where I need you to listen. I need you to really think about when I'm to tell you now. That passion your display on the forum for black culture, it very easily gets confused or mistaken for some sort of resentment or dislike toward white culture. That is what I was trying to say in your thread about Hip-Hop. I was not placing blame on any specific ethnicity for the decline of Hip-Hop or Rap music quality. That blame does not belong to any single ethnicity. Because we all play a part in that, whether you want to recognize that fact or not Soulflower. Furthermore. The way you attempt to solidify or justify placing the blame on white culture for destroying Hip-Hop, as you put it. That only makes you look even more like you have a vendetta against white culture. Additionally. It makes you seem ignorant, even arrogant...a certain level of prejudice seems evident as well. I know you have declared that you have nothing against white culture. But how you keep placing blame on white culture, or us in general paints a different picture and does not lay favor to your argument that you have nothing against whites. Plain and simple man and I'm sorry if that rubs you the wrong way.

Let go of that disdain man. This is not so long ago when black culture did not have equal rights. That time is done and it has been long past time for people to move on and stop acting like they were around to live through that horrible time.

Stop placing blame on white culture for the state of Hip-Hop and Rap culture. Because like I stated before. The blame belongs to us all. We all play a part.

DwnWthVwls

You realize a large portion possibly even a slight majority of the underground scene maintaining the feel of classic hiphop (the kind you and I would rather see get radio play over the current mainstream music) is white right?

No one destroyed hiphop, it has changed with the generations just like EVERY other genre. Stop trying to place blame on someone/thing specific. Who destroyed rock and roll? Who destroyed metal? The bands of today sound nothing like the famous influences they give credit to, hiphop isn't any different. Stop making this into something racial or a corporate agenda. People go where the money is.

__________________
I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...

CoNtrivedNiHilism

Yeah, yeah. Right on man, right on.

I dislike the blame game. It's ridiculous.

COR7Nature

Wow! being a newcomer to musicbanter I never imagined starting this thread would get to 5 pages! thanks to everyone who contributed to making this thread a healthy debate and discussion.

Lastly, to someone on page 2 or 3 who asked me for my definition of artistic talent here it is - if an individual or group who creates something whether its a song, video, film, blog, painting, etc. If whatever they display doesn't impact the listener/viewer/reader in a manner where he/she/they get influenced to learn more, care more, think more, to ultimately take action to be more as an individual or group to contribute to society's growth and prosperity and unity in all communities, then its not artistic in my opinion. This goes for all genres of everything in the creative arts field.

Soulflower

First off this is my last time telling you that I am not a man.

So please be respectful and stop referring to me as such. I know that this is a male dominated forum and you can't believe a woman has some balls to back up her opinions regardless of what others think but no I am not a man, I am a woman. That is my last time addressing that.


Second, what is ignorant is the fact that you think you can label and past judgement on someone you have never meant. This is a message board and I am simply responding and expressing to an article posted.

If you want to peg me as "prejudice" because I dare to say the truth then so be it. It shows your ignorance and lack of understanding of the history of African Americans in this country as well as Hip Hop. Nothing I stated is exaggerated or racist.

But I don't expect for you to "try to understand" I expect for you to carelessly label me as what you did. Its easy for ya'll to do that because ya'll don't experience racism or get judged based on the color of your skin. As a result it clouds your ability to be emphatic to what you don't experience and you think that you are "not the problem" when you are.

Trust me, I was taught this and even by WHITE instructors. So I think you need to look at yourself before you imply someone is ignorant and not educated on what they are talking about. Everything I am saying is no secret and is widely recognized.


I am sorry but it is not so rosey and sunflowers. I will never stop speaking what I know to be true or expressing my opinion especially when I know people in my life and personally who go through the same things.

If you go on the internet and look at the statistics, Corporate America is majority white people. That is not a secret. Majority of the CEO's and record label owners are in fact white people. That is also not a secret.


Before African Americans came to this country, the country was mostly constructed on westernized principles based on the dominated race which were white people.

Most of the African American genres especially during the 50's-70's were westernized once they reached mainstream so they could have a more broader appeal. The same thing applied to Hip Hop which is why it does not accurately reflect black culture anymore.

I insisted that the black rappers are apart of the problem to a degree and take some responsibility. These discussions could be more interesting if people were more educated on what they were talking about versus labeling someone prejudice just because they are blaming their race for westernizing a genre.

It is a fact regardless whether you accept it or not. I could care less what someone over the internet thinks about me and they don't even know me.

Soulflower

We are not talking about who is currently maintaining Hip Hop.

The discussion pretty much focused on the creation of Hip Hop and why it evolution to what it is today in the mainstream.

So you don't think Hip Hop was westernized? Do you know what it means to westernized something?

Can you provide some stats to prove the bolded? I am sorry that is b.s


This is a corporate agenda love and it is negatively impacting the black community and the way they are depicted in the media.

CoNtrivedNiHilism

I never saw where you addressed your gender so I'll just ignore that. But it is now noted. And hell. A woman that will speak her mind, regardless of what backlash she will get. That's not a bad thing. But where it becomes a problem is when a woman takes it to the point that it comes off in bad taste. That's what you're doing here. You're throwing your ideologies around and regardless of people proving them wrong. You insist you're right and take to saying whoever is disagreeing with you, is obviously looking down on your gender or culture, or just is not educated in the topic you are addressing. I mean, really? What kind of tactic is that, if not a petty one. I don't need to know you when the picture you're painting of yourself right now is that of an individual with a chip on their shoulder. Impressions of people can still be established, even behind a computer screen.

Look lady. The fact remains that %95 of this little blame game you're going on about with Hip-Hop and whatnot, you're putting it on the whites. That is abundantly clear. Palpable! And you're going in this circle about it, back and forth. And you sit there with the audacity to say that because the color of my skin is not that same as yours, that there is no way I could ever know what racism feels like? Lady, remember that last post where I spoke of ignorance? Again you ring the bell true to me saying that of you. And furthermore. You also say that us white people are the problem. There are two sides of this lady, and your ethnicity is far from innocent. If you really want to get in to that debate. Be my guest. But you had better be prepared for what you will be told by those that are disgusted.

And about these people that taught you about America and the ethnicity that vastly made up its population. What did these people teach you about American culture, or white culture in general exactly? That we're a bunch of judgmental, self entitled, incapable of empathy, that for whatever good we have in us, is not enough to make up for what African Americans went through so long ago? Because from what I see. It looks like these people taught you to carry a grudge.

Your argument on the topic of this thread is far more rooted in the wrong doings of white culture or the crimes we've exacted upon African Americans than what is supposed to be the point of this thread in the first place. Is hip hop destroying american youth? But the second someone says anything about African American culture. Here you come with your tirade.

Soulflower

Just don't ignore it like you did the first time I corrected you.
I corrected you on it before. To be fair, most here think I am a guy but just noting that I did correct you before.

So its bad taste for a woman to feel strongly about her opinion but its not in bad taste for a man?

It is okay for a man to be opinionated but not a woman?

I am not throwing around my ideologies. I am simply responding to an article. I am not pressing my opinion on others. For some reason you think its "right" to past judgement on someone simply because you disagree with them. Its judgmental and very immature.

How would you like it if I labeled you a racist simply because you disagreed with my opinion?

You have not proven anything wrong with facts or statistics. Instead, you have personally attacked me with ignorant judgement and labels simply because you disagree.

Why don't you maturely and intelligently state why you disagree with my opinion?

You can continue to call me a racist because I personally could care less. But I just want you to know that it doesn't prove my argument wrong. It just shows that you are ignorant and don't know how to intelligently support your argument with facts instead of personal attacks.


I said that to YOU because you personally attacked me and your post was beyond ignorant. You past judgements on me simply because you disagreed with my opinion. You did not prove anything wrong with facts or statistics. So you can stop saying that you proved my argument wrong.

You just have foolishly called me names this entire time which don't prove anything except the fact that you are childish and ignorant.





Hip Hop is African American culture and if you don't want to talk about black culture than leave the thread.

You can take your indifference to racism and how white people mistreated minorities some place else.

I didnt come with a tirade. I simply responded to the article.


Oh I think I am more than prepared.

The question is are you ready?

Because I am about to educate you because you seem to think when you disagree with someone you call them names instead of taking the time to research and search for information to support your opinion. There are a ton of racist things that go on on this board and NOTHING is said but as soon as someone suggests something white people did to a minority culture they are suddenly a "racist", typical white privileged nonsense.

Soulflower

You dislike the blame game because it makes you feel uncomfortable being told your culture is responsibility for the downfall of a race and genre.