Notorious B.I.G.

**Janszoon** · 01-21-2013, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle11

All Balls Don't Bounce and Magnificent City.

Thanks!

14232949 · 01-21-2013, 02:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Dr. Rez

1. 99 percent of people only know Big Poppa and Juicy. Secondly he made 2 albums that influenced more artists that most people could in a lifetime. If you dont think thats true just look how many rappers reference Biggie in their music.

2. That is a complete and total guess. You are seriously saying the rap scene is better than it was in the 90's? That is like like a telling a blues fan the golden day is now and the 60's were nothing. Come on man every rappers favorites albums are even from the 90's. Pac, Em, Biggie, Mobb Deep, Del, Dre, Snoop and soooooooo many more that are considered the most influential rap albums of all time.

3. Um much of the good hip hop from the 90's wasnt all about "hoes and bitches" either. And I would say much more of the mainstream today is.

Lol, if 99% people only know two Notorious BIG songs, their opinion on hip-hop as a whole would be rather tainted I would imagine. That'd be like me running into the rock/metal section and saying I know two AC/DC songs, they are undoubtedly the best band ever. Which ironically is the logic being displayed by most in this thread.

Of course it's a guess, no sh*t. Unless you created some sort of alternate reality simulator, how could you answer a hypothetical about what would have happened had someone not died.
Nothing in the last two years has been around long enough to influence anyone yet, the next generation of rappers hasn't been born or are just children right now.
What are you basing it on? It's subjective, I believe the present day is hip-hops true 'golden age' because there are more talented guys out there than ever before. With the exception of Prodigy from Mobb Deep, none of the guys you mentioned are even near the top of the hip-hop totem pole.

Right, so when 2Pac and Notorious BIG had their little feud and continually told each other they were going to kill the other, that wasn't about guns, right?
Or when Biggie sings about being 'Big Poppa' or when him and Puffy get some girl to sing about how great Biggie is in Hypontize, that's not misogynist, that's not about hoes.
When Biggie says 'money, clothes an hoes that's all a ****** knows' that's not about hoes?
When he whitters on in Nigga's Bleed and What's Beef about death by gun crime that's not about guns?
Or, the whole era known as the 'bling' era that was the norm of late 90's rap, I suppose that never encompassed glorifying misogyny or crime.
'Yeah, those were the good old days not like that today'

And Surrell, in my opinion Kendrick Lemar has dropped two better albums than Biggie did, is it legitimate to say he may be one of the best of all time, based off of those two albums?
Death has a funny way of skewing peoples perception, especially music critics. Listen to those two albums and tell me they're honestly as great as you believe.
I'm not Notorious BIG hater, but some of you guys need to jump off his decaying balls, he wasn't that good.

Dr_Rez · 01-23-2013, 02:42 AM

First off your reply seems to be made in a pretty demeaning and condescending tone which I find pretty useless considering we are simply discussing an artists and genres popularity. There is no reason it can't be done in a respectful tone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

Lol, if 99% people only know two Notorious BIG songs, their opinion on hip-hop as a whole would be rather tainted I would imagine. That'd be like me running into the rock/metal section and saying I know two AC/DC songs, they are undoubtedly the best band ever. Which ironically is the logic being displayed by most in this thread.

You missed my entire point. Perhaps I did not get it across very clearly on second look at what I typed. The average music fan/rap fan does infact under appreciate biggie. Sure they like his music and respect the talent he had but fail to see the influence on future generations of rappers he managed to make; to make things even more impressive he did that with only 2 albums, neither of which were all that long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

Of course it's a guess, no sh*t. Unless you created some sort of alternate reality simulator, how could you answer a hypothetical about what would have happened had someone not died. Nothing in the last two years has been around long enough to influence anyone yet, the next generation of rappers hasn't been born or are just children right now.

Ok I will say this again but not as nicely this time. What you typed about what he would probably do was a pointless waste of words. You are right its a guess so there is no point in this argument to start stating completely hypothetical and speculative opinions about a dead rappers future.

It does not matter. I think there are many more talented blues guitarists around today than the 60's. In fact the sheer number of great rock and blues bands today makes the amount back in the 50's 60's 70's look like small potatoes. It does not change the fact its golden days were when the style was first being created. Those artists will forever be the originators of an art that is constantly progressing. The 80's and 90's were the golden days of hip hop and every artist today owes a great deal to the classics of that time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

Right, so when 2Pac and Notorious BIG had their little feud and continually told each other they were going to kill the other, that wasn't about guns, right?
Or when Biggie sings about being 'Big Poppa' or when him and Puffy get some girl to sing about how great Biggie is in Hypontize, that's not misogynist, that's not about hoes.
When Biggie says 'money, clothes an hoes that's all a ****** knows' that's not about hoes?
When he whitters on in Nigga's Bleed and What's Beef about death by gun crime that's not about guns?
Or, the whole era known as the 'bling' era that was the norm of late 90's rap, I suppose that never encompassed glorifying misogyny or crime.
'Yeah, those were the good old days not like that today'

First off you couldnt be more wrong about that Pac and Big beef. 99.9 percent of that supposed beef was the media, fans, friends, and other outside sources trying to make news and sell albums. If you would actually read about their lives and read interviews then you would realize they certainly did not talk about killing each other all the time.

Also naming a few select lines to fit your narrow minded view of the music they made is not only irresponsible to rap fans reading this thread but incredible naive and shallow. Pac was publicly known for trying to reduce gang violence, programs to keep kids in school, and told real stories in much of his music that was inspirational to many people including myself. Read some of his poetry, the guy was actually an incredible person. While biggie was not half the man Pac was he certainly had some positive lyrics as well.

~~Whiskey~~ · 01-23-2013, 06:06 AM

Who knew my thread about Biggie would turn into a complicated conversation like this. Dont sweat it guys, its just music.

Dr_Rez · 01-23-2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskey

Who knew my thread about Biggie would turn into a complicated conversation like this. Dont sweat it guys, its just music.

We all joined this forum to discuss music. So why not? Just having a spirited debate, I still respect Manky and hopefully vice versa.

Justthefacts · 01-23-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indiekid

I never got the fuss about BIG (or 2Pac). Always thought Snoop (at the time) and the Wu were much better.

I do think that if either of them hadn't died Jay-Z might not be as big as it is now.

What does an indie kid know about dat Biggie?

~~Whiskey~~ · 01-23-2013, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Rez

We all joined this forum to discuss music. So why not? Just having a spirited debate, I still respect Manky and hopefully vice versa.

I never said anything about respecting or not respecting each other. I just meant that large debates like this are just unnecessary and definitely not something I expected to happen when I created this thread. Im not telling you to stop debating with him, just telling you what it seems like to me.

SGR · 01-24-2013, 06:28 AM

Manky, you said you didn't care for Biggie's lyrical content but you like "It Was Written" alot though, right? They are pretty similar lyrically, as Nas did that whole Mafioso thing.

Surell · 01-26-2013, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

And Surrell, in my opinion Kendrick Lemar has dropped two better albums than Biggie did, is it legitimate to say he may be one of the best of all time, based off of those two albums?

It's never a legitimate claim because Kendrick Lamaar can't even top Ghostface's worst albums, or Gucci Mane's best. If that last part was a little hard to swallow, see Lil Wayne.

Ok, that's not a fair claim because I didn't hear .80 but good kid was drawn out enough to be two albums if you ask me.

Quote:

Death has a funny way of skewing peoples perception, especially music critics. Listen to those two albums and tell me they're honestly as great as you believe.

OF course, and I always like to keep this in mind when someone like these guys, Nirvana, or the Beatles (since their group was halted all prematurely and shit) are up for debate.

But I can tell you, having listened fairly closely to Pac and BIG (even BIG's not my absolute favorite), the former was not a great lyricist, and BIG was, and even when he wasn't he had idiosyncratic talents that no one else (or at least not many) could touch, that i've mentioned already. Great rappers - especially east coast - will tell you how great an impact he had on their music, as contemporaries, and it can be heard. But influence aside, Biggie was commanding, versatile (at least in tone), and an all around great MC. Honestly, Kendrick Lamaar would be similar for me if his lyrical content wasn't so whack.

Quote:

I'm not Notorious BIG hater, but some of you guys need to jump off his decaying balls, he wasn't that good.

He's sure as hell a lot better than a lot of the rappers I see get accolades now, and those guys know they owe him big.

TheBig3 · 01-26-2013, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

Lol, if 99% people only know two Notorious BIG songs, their opinion on hip-hop as a whole would be rather tainted I would imagine. That'd be like me running into the rock/metal section and saying I know two AC/DC songs, they are undoubtedly the best band ever. Which ironically is the logic being displayed by most in this thread.

Of course it's a guess, no sh*t. Unless you created some sort of alternate reality simulator, how could you answer a hypothetical about what would have happened had someone not died.
Nothing in the last two years has been around long enough to influence anyone yet, the next generation of rappers hasn't been born or are just children right now.
What are you basing it on? It's subjective, I believe the present day is hip-hops true 'golden age' because there are more talented guys out there than ever before. With the exception of Prodigy from Mobb Deep, none of the guys you mentioned are even near the top of the hip-hop totem pole.

Right, so when 2Pac and Notorious BIG had their little feud and continually told each other they were going to kill the other, that wasn't about guns, right?
Or when Biggie sings about being 'Big Poppa' or when him and Puffy get some girl to sing about how great Biggie is in Hypontize, that's not misogynist, that's not about hoes.
When Biggie says 'money, clothes an hoes that's all a ****** knows' that's not about hoes?
When he whitters on in Nigga's Bleed and What's Beef about death by gun crime that's not about guns?
Or, the whole era known as the 'bling' era that was the norm of late 90's rap, I suppose that never encompassed glorifying misogyny or crime.
'Yeah, those were the good old days not like that today'

And Surrell, in my opinion Kendrick Lemar has dropped two better albums than Biggie did, is it legitimate to say he may be one of the best of all time, based off of those two albums?
Death has a funny way of skewing peoples perception, especially music critics. Listen to those two albums and tell me they're honestly as great as you believe.
I'm not Notorious BIG hater, but some of you guys need to jump off his decaying balls, he wasn't that good.

1. Your avatars too jolly for your attitude.

2. I'll verb however I want on whoevers balls I want. Alive, Dead, Undead, Uber Alive, ect.

3. A lot of the people you like I think are ****. Then some others are just factually ****.

4. (serious point) By the criteria you're using, many artists, beyond the realm of rap/hip hop would be ****. Biggie seems to me to be the singer/songwriters rapper. Which is not to make the comparison, but he's coming at the art form in the same fashion.

Admittedly rap wasn't as well refined in 1992 as rock or folk, and many conventional trappings that would limit the genre in a 1-to-1 comparison, but ultimately its the same ethos that drives the creation.

Its ok to admit you don't know what you're talking about Manky - you got mad at fanbois and overreached. We've all been there. Feel free to PM me your apology.

01-23-2013, 06:06 AM	#44 (permalink)
~~Whiskey~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Israel Posts: 180	Who knew my thread about Biggie would turn into a complicated conversation like this. Dont sweat it guys, its just music.

01-24-2013, 06:28 AM	#48 (permalink)
SGR No Ice In My Bourbon Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: /dev/null Posts: 4,326	Manky, you said you didn't care for Biggie's lyrical content but you like "It Was Written" alot though, right? They are pretty similar lyrically, as Nas did that whole Mafioso thing.