I agree with you that Big L and Big Pun are better than Biggie (though I like Biggie too), but I disagree that no one talks about them. Both are pretty well regarded, at least among hip hop fans.

Biggie can certainly rhyme, musically is up to interpretation, I don't think you can deny that he was good at rhyming to a beat.

I suppose I probably meant to say among casual fans. I know most members on here and those who pay attention to hip-hop are aware of them. It's just casual fans seem insistent that Biggie & Pac > everything else for some strange reason.

Yes hoes, money, fat rides, and banging is something of the norm in hip hop. Just like in rock its drugs, women, etc. What seperates good artists from the average is the creativity in which you tell your storys. Which imo in most of todays hip hop is very predictable. "Shawtys at the club"....."yeah yeah"...."I'm rollin on some dubs"..."what what." I think the way in which Pac and Biggie and a lot of others from the ol days of hip hop did it was more artistic.

I say this as someone who likes rap but doesn't dive into it a lot and am generally exposed to bits and pieces from all over the genre, rather than move through it with any intentional path...

Biggie has better flow than most. I always felt like BIG made it sound effortless. That has little to do with lyrics, so maybe he gets a pass on that more than he should, but theres something a lot more smooth to me about BIG than most rappers.

In a general sense, I don't care for much rap because its a little too affected. Thats why I think I like Biggie, too. He once said "I rap about what I know. If I ate at McDonalds every day, I would rap about eating Big Macs."

Outside of rap, you find a lot of dead-horse beaters. I don't know that we should bag on rappers for the same thing. Furthermore, when rap goes beyond what it knows, it can often get preachy and stale, so I'll take a guy who knows his wheelhouse over someone who doesn't know his limits.

Thats a good point there man. These subjects are definitely present in so many hip hop albums that it is very predictable what you're going to hear about mostly. Though if you take rappers like Eminem for example, he doesn't really rap about these kind of subjects that you mentioned.

Yeah, Biggie had decent flow but it's not the best flow in hip-hop.
The guy was obviously talented, I just don't feel like he ever produced what he was capable of. His albums smacked of gimmick, they contained far too much filler and for every one glimpse of greatness, there were 10 sub-par moments. In my opinion that is.
I also find it interesting, Biggie choose eating at Mcdonalds as his analogy as if he'd never frequented a fast food joint.

Yeah because Eminem's stale ass crap about bringing his daughter up to have the life he never had and protecting her from the spotlight by talking about her every second line is the very best of hip-hop.

Well if you think about some of Pacs stuff like the song.."you wonder why they call you bitch" or "shorty wanna be a thug" Its more of a tale of how things came to pass and why things are the way they are. Instead of just the cliche things you mostly hear now about the search for ho's and gettin ho's and how tough they are. To me they told things in such a way that was easy to keep your attention without becoming monotonous and mundane. Biggie accomplished the same thing in a lot of his music.

As far as Eminem goes it wasn't just about his daughter "Love the way you Lie" was a great song to me. "I am whatever you say I am" was also great along with some other songs.

I guess I cant disagree with that. I hate Eminem so much and I think he's a terrible rapper, so any derogatory comment towards him is much appreciated by me.

lol the reason L isn't as appreciated by casual Hip-Hop fans is because he never had any tracks crossover, Put It On was the cloest he got, you won't see L getting his videos played on music channels or the radio unless they are dedicated Hip-Hop channels. Biggie was hanging around with Puff Daddy and making tracks like Mo Money Mo Problems, that was only his 2nd album, if he'd have made more the tracks would have certainly been even worse, look at some of the features he had on his 2nd album, also as someone else said, Pac/Biggie were involved in all that fighting and were murdered which has just enhanced their legacies even further.

L was better than Biggie imo, I also prefer Lifestylez over anything Biggie did.