Thanks! :)

Lol, if 99% people only know two Notorious BIG songs, their opinion on hip-hop as a whole would be rather tainted I would imagine. That'd be like me running into the rock/metal section and saying I know two AC/DC songs, they are undoubtedly the best band ever. Which ironically is the logic being displayed by most in this thread.

Of course it's a guess, no sh*t. Unless you created some sort of alternate reality simulator, how could you answer a hypothetical about what would have happened had someone not died.
Nothing in the last two years has been around long enough to influence anyone yet, the next generation of rappers hasn't been born or are just children right now.
What are you basing it on? It's subjective, I believe the present day is hip-hops true 'golden age' because there are more talented guys out there than ever before. With the exception of Prodigy from Mobb Deep, none of the guys you mentioned are even near the top of the hip-hop totem pole.

Right, so when 2Pac and Notorious BIG had their little feud and continually told each other they were going to kill the other, that wasn't about guns, right?
Or when Biggie sings about being 'Big Poppa' or when him and Puffy get some girl to sing about how great Biggie is in Hypontize, that's not misogynist, that's not about hoes.
When Biggie says 'money, clothes an hoes that's all a ****** knows' that's not about hoes?
When he whitters on in Nigga's Bleed and What's Beef about death by gun crime that's not about guns?
Or, the whole era known as the 'bling' era that was the norm of late 90's rap, I suppose that never encompassed glorifying misogyny or crime.
'Yeah, those were the good old days not like that today'

And Surrell, in my opinion Kendrick Lemar has dropped two better albums than Biggie did, is it legitimate to say he may be one of the best of all time, based off of those two albums?
Death has a funny way of skewing peoples perception, especially music critics. Listen to those two albums and tell me they're honestly as great as you believe.
I'm not Notorious BIG hater, but some of you guys need to jump off his decaying balls, he wasn't that good.

First off your reply seems to be made in a pretty demeaning and condescending tone which I find pretty useless considering we are simply discussing an artists and genres popularity. There is no reason it can't be done in a respectful tone.

You missed my entire point. Perhaps I did not get it across very clearly on second look at what I typed. The average music fan/rap fan does infact under appreciate biggie. Sure they like his music and respect the talent he had but fail to see the influence on future generations of rappers he managed to make; to make things even more impressive he did that with only 2 albums, neither of which were all that long.

Ok I will say this again but not as nicely this time. What you typed about what he would probably do was a pointless waste of words. You are right its a guess so there is no point in this argument to start stating completely hypothetical and speculative opinions about a dead rappers future.

It does not matter. I think there are many more talented blues guitarists around today than the 60's. In fact the sheer number of great rock and blues bands today makes the amount back in the 50's 60's 70's look like small potatoes. It does not change the fact its golden days were when the style was first being created. Those artists will forever be the originators of an art that is constantly progressing. The 80's and 90's were the golden days of hip hop and every artist today owes a great deal to the classics of that time.

First off you couldnt be more wrong about that Pac and Big beef. 99.9 percent of that supposed beef was the media, fans, friends, and other outside sources trying to make news and sell albums. If you would actually read about their lives and read interviews then you would realize they certainly did not talk about killing each other all the time.

Also naming a few select lines to fit your narrow minded view of the music they made is not only irresponsible to rap fans reading this thread but incredible naive and shallow. Pac was publicly known for trying to reduce gang violence, programs to keep kids in school, and told real stories in much of his music that was inspirational to many people including myself. Read some of his poetry, the guy was actually an incredible person. While biggie was not half the man Pac was he certainly had some positive lyrics as well.

Who knew my thread about Biggie would turn into a complicated conversation like this. Dont sweat it guys, its just music.

We all joined this forum to discuss music. So why not? Just having a spirited debate, I still respect Manky and hopefully vice versa.

What does an indie kid know about dat Biggie?

I never said anything about respecting or not respecting each other. I just meant that large debates like this are just unnecessary and definitely not something I expected to happen when I created this thread. Im not telling you to stop debating with him, just telling you what it seems like to me.

Manky, you said you didn't care for Biggie's lyrical content but you like "It Was Written" alot though, right? They are pretty similar lyrically, as Nas did that whole Mafioso thing.

It's never a legitimate claim because Kendrick Lamaar can't even top Ghostface's worst albums, or Gucci Mane's best. If that last part was a little hard to swallow, see Lil Wayne.

Ok, that's not a fair claim because I didn't hear .80 but good kid was drawn out enough to be two albums if you ask me.

OF course, and I always like to keep this in mind when someone like these guys, Nirvana, or the Beatles (since their group was halted all prematurely and shit) are up for debate.

But I can tell you, having listened fairly closely to Pac and BIG (even BIG's not my absolute favorite), the former was not a great lyricist, and BIG was, and even when he wasn't he had idiosyncratic talents that no one else (or at least not many) could touch, that i've mentioned already. Great rappers - especially east coast - will tell you how great an impact he had on their music, as contemporaries, and it can be heard. But influence aside, Biggie was commanding, versatile (at least in tone), and an all around great MC. Honestly, Kendrick Lamaar would be similar for me if his lyrical content wasn't so whack.

He's sure as hell a lot better than a lot of the rappers I see get accolades now, and those guys know they owe him big.

1. Your avatars too jolly for your attitude.

2. I'll verb however I want on whoevers balls I want. Alive, Dead, Undead, Uber Alive, ect.

3. A lot of the people you like I think are ****. Then some others are just factually ****.

4. (serious point) By the criteria you're using, many artists, beyond the realm of rap/hip hop would be ****. Biggie seems to me to be the singer/songwriters rapper. Which is not to make the comparison, but he's coming at the art form in the same fashion.

Admittedly rap wasn't as well refined in 1992 as rock or folk, and many conventional trappings that would limit the genre in a 1-to-1 comparison, but ultimately its the same ethos that drives the creation.

Its ok to admit you don't know what you're talking about Manky - you got mad at fanbois and overreached. We've all been there. Feel free to PM me your apology.

And yet no evidence has been presented on the contrary to what I have posted. For all your wit Big3, you have failed to make a compelling argument.
If I like other rappers, so what of it, that adds nothing to this particular discussion. I have disregarded your two previous comments as utterly irrelevant.
My problem with Notorious BIG is that he's not as skilled, not as lyrically gifted as the majority of you would believe. Quote me his lyrics all you want, you're only furthering my stance in this conversation.

Big3, I know you were either drunk or reminiscing on when you're uncle touched you when you posted your reply, but if there's someone who doesn't know what they're talking about here; it's you.

If Notorious BIG is the be all and end all of your hip-hop spectrum, I pity you, you're missing out on a lot of good stuff.

Somewhere out there an English teacher is crying.

right, shoulda been a 'your' there, I get that on closer reflection. I have just pulled off a comedy gig in front of a hostile crowd and come away with plaudits so I'm allowed a grammar mistake here and there.
Also, to be relevant to the subject at hand; Notorious BIG: Good, not great.

That was really just the tip of the iceberg.

Put them claws away, gurl. I'm sure your fantastic at comedy, but you're no scientist. You can't present evidence against an opinion assuming its dealing with facts. You don't like biggie. You've been telling us for 7 pages. There isn't evidence against that.

And since you're in the Biggie thread, trying to tell us he's a big, fat pile of horse****, maybe you should refute my point. Biggie is raps Bruce Springsteen. Show me I'm wrong.

I do like Biggie. I'm just not washed up in the notion that he's one of the greatest of all time because in each area of hip-hop that one could possibly come up with, there are far superior artists.
Raps Bruce Springsteen, what exactly do you mean by that? Releases one good record for every fifth album? I really don't see your basis for comparison.

Name one area of rap in which Notorious BIG is the best in your mind and I'll present at least 3 artists superior to him.

I think its a cheap argument to attempt to define someone as "not the best." There's always someone better at something to begin with - not to mention in the opinionated world of music. I never said he was perfect at anything, I said he should be spared from your onslaught which seemed to be born from fanbois.

If we went on epic rants in every thread where someone said the artist was the best, it would be spam left and right.

I wasn't aware I was 'hating' on Notorious BIG. I had simply stated against what was the norm earlier in the thread, that he was one of the best, in my mind he's not.

I respect that when someone is first getting into hip-hop, the name's they are drawn to, the Pac's and Biggie's will stick out to them as the greatest as that's all they know, but I implore those people search deeper and there are so many better artists.

Biggie's two albums are completely over-hyped in my eyes and can anyone hand on heart say they are they 5* classics they're made out to be? I honestly think not.

Im very sure people who are first getting into hip-hop do actually search deeper and not just get to know Pac and Biggie. I dont know where you heard that or what makes you think that way but its just wrong.

I sense what kind of point you've been trying to make with your posts in this thread, which by the way I created. That doesnt make me special or anything but people should know I didnt make it so arguments like this can unfold in it. You need to listen to the other sides as well and not just yourself, because the people you've been arguing with in this thread have made statements which seem to have more truth than yours actually. I say this based on the posts Ive read that were involved in the debate/argument, whatever you may call it.

BIG was a King !

Forum Game's Kanye West

if he gets to be yeezy i wanna be forum games ghost of pimp c

I got dibs on Weezy and Gucci's mixtape baby (my uncle is flame series Lil B)

ah but of course