Illmatic - is it worth the hype?

Rjinn · 12-30-2012, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine

You people consider yourself rap fans?
On Illmatic, Nas's mic skills conjure Rakim and Big Daddy Kane but made that straight-forward, flawlessly rhythmic, hard-hitting MC style a little more modern (for the early-90s). And, Goofle, you consider DJ Premier, Pete Rock, Large Professor, and Q-tip to be only average producers? For shame.

Yes, Illmatic is worthy of its hype.

I don't see what this has to do with being a rap fan or not. He's not an artist that I find interesting much and his MC prowess on Illmatic isn't amazing. If so more plain than fans seem to make it out to be. Since we're strictly talking the album here I didn't say it sucked. But I wasn't moved by it and Nas' lyrical content I find typical.

Engine · 12-31-2012, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinn

I don't see what this has to do with being a rap fan or not. He's not an artist that I find interesting much and his MC prowess on Illmatic isn't amazing. If so more plain than fans seem to make it out to be. Since we're strictly talking the album here I didn't say it sucked. But I wasn't moved by it and Nas' lyrical content I find typical.

A knowledgeable rap fan would consider the album pretty great.
The lyrical content on Illmatic is about as real as he could have made it.

edit: I'm sorry to come off as rude, anybody can be a rap fan of course.
But if you don't see what's great about Illmatic than you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the genre. Probably you're just too inexperienced. Like any science, you may need to have historical knowledge of Rap Music to appreciate the album.

Engine · 12-31-2012, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle11

I shouldn't care at all. Is he good? Yes. Do I consider him great? Nope.

And as I said, I think the production is good, nothing special.

I missed this statement before.
Tell me again that you don't care at all about Rakim, and yet you're a rap fan. Explain why, if you can take the time.

Rjinn · 12-31-2012, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engine

A knowledgeable rap fan would consider the album pretty great.
The lyrical content on Illmatic is about as real as he could have made it.

edit: I'm sorry to come off as rude, anybody can be a rap fan of course.
But if you don't see what's great about Illmatic than you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the genre. Probably you're just too inexperienced. Like any science, you may need to have historical knowledge of Rap Music to appreciate the album.

That's ok I don't take offense.

I think that's a pretty far fetched thing to conclude though. I don't think it's really fair to dismiss one's knowledge judging by one perception of an album. Perhaps I have a different standard, but I've accumulated enough to reach it.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to why you think this is so essential fundamentally to rap?

**Janszoon** · 12-31-2012, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens

Well is it?

Nope. It's good, but not THAT good.

**Goofle** · 12-31-2012, 06:53 AM

Engine's last two posts are pretty strange. Not really sure why I would want to listen to an artist who "conjures" others. I want an individual voice to be represented by each artist. Obviously I can appreciate similarities, but that doesn't make me like them more or less.

And saying "A knowledgeable rap fan would consider the album pretty great." is quite ridiculous, especially considering "knowledgeable" Hip Hop fans are supposed to look beyond MTV's Top 10 Hip Hop Albums list, and compare what they find with the classics. I find it compares well, but I rate many albums more.

SGR · 12-31-2012, 06:54 AM

Yeah, I think it's pretty much flawless. Save for a noticeable dip in lyrical content on one song (One Time 4 Your Mind), Nas was on point for the whole album. One Time 4 Your Mind does have one of Nas's more unique flows on the album plus it's just fun.

Honestly though, I prefer Enter the 36 Chambers to Illmatic.
Hell, I probably even prefer Reasonable Doubt to it, for the fact that the production has aged much better.

Rjinn · 12-31-2012, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Nope. It's good, but not THAT good.

Yo.

1stofthamonth · 12-31-2012, 09:07 AM

The thing is it came out in 1994. At that point the things producers like DJ Premier and Q-Tip were doing were both new and interesting. And his lyrical content is amazing. He might not have the most interesting flow in the world but he does rap with technical proficiency and soul. Released at the time it was a 10/10 album topper. Today it'd be a 9/10 indie album. It's not the best of all time though. I don't think it beats 36 Chambers

Engine · 12-31-2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofle11

Engine's last two posts are pretty strange. Not really sure why I would want to listen to an artist who "conjures" others. I want an individual voice to be represented by each artist. Obviously I can appreciate similarities, but that doesn't make me like them more or less.

And saying "A knowledgeable rap fan would consider the album pretty great." is quite ridiculous, especially considering "knowledgeable" Hip Hop fans are supposed to look beyond MTV's Top 10 Hip Hop Albums list, and compare what they find with the classics. I find it compares well, but I rate many albums more.

Strange, eh? Let me attempt to clarify my thoughts for you then.

Please forget my use of the word 'conjure' if you think that I mean 'emulate' or, to dumb it down further, to 'sound similar to' because what I mean is that Nas on Illmatic represented a natural progression of hip-hop MCs. You don't need to respect the originators of hip-hop. I see that it's all just a bit of fun for you. But the original artists were actually historically and artistically important, believe it or not. And Nas (on Illmatic) made his mark on hip-hop's history because he has a talent for the thing. Ignore that history if you want. It's just intellectual stuff like the timeline of rap that I am talking about.

What I meant by 'knowledgeable rap fan' is one who knows and respects hip-hop's origins. You are, of course, free to ignore that old stuff and just listen to whatever strikes your fancy but it definitely shows a lack of depth of your understanding of the genre if you don't care about the originators. And you, Goofle, are really young and inexperienced with music so I don't expect you to know or care much about the rap masters. That's fine. Just go rock out and have fun. I realize that there is too much good music out there for you to care about all of it.

12-31-2012, 06:54 AM	#17 (permalink)
SGR No Ice In My Bourbon Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: /dev/null Posts: 4,327	Yeah, I think it's pretty much flawless. Save for a noticeable dip in lyrical content on one song (One Time 4 Your Mind), Nas was on point for the whole album. One Time 4 Your Mind does have one of Nas's more unique flows on the album plus it's just fun. Honestly though, I prefer Enter the 36 Chambers to Illmatic. Hell, I probably even prefer Reasonable Doubt to it, for the fact that the production has aged much better.

12-31-2012, 09:07 AM	#19 (permalink)
1stofthamonth Groupie Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1	The thing is it came out in 1994. At that point the things producers like DJ Premier and Q-Tip were doing were both new and interesting. And his lyrical content is amazing. He might not have the most interesting flow in the world but he does rap with technical proficiency and soul. Released at the time it was a 10/10 album topper. Today it'd be a 9/10 indie album. It's not the best of all time though. I don't think it beats 36 Chambers