The only one I think it's a stretch for is "In My Lifetime". The other four are ace and American Gangster is easily his most underrated joint.

Erm, I was talking about Kanye West with the "good but overrated" comment.

http://i48.tinypic.com/al0xzr.jpg

Bought it a week after it came out mate, I own the Black Album too. Nice try though :)

lol

American Gangster - Rubbish attempt at a concept album. Compare it to "The Autobiography of Kirk Jones" and it's not as good, is it?

Black Album - Overrated. Didn't Lupe write for Jay-Z on some of the tracks? Lol his closest attempt at being 'deep'. He's a fraud.

Blueprint - Overrated, Eminem bombed all over him on his own tune. Nas bombed all over him with his reply to Takeover.

Reasonable Doubt - Good, but not the classic it's made out to be.

BS. Lupe's Lazers was officially ghost written, same with most of kanye's work. Both artists admitted it. Jay Z has way too much influence to be forced by any label to recite lyrics that aren't his own.

Kanye has admitted to not writing down his lyrics until recently, but I don't think he has admitted to having a ghost writer.

Doesn't matter for me personally. It's not like the ghost writers (if any) are blowing minds.

More or less the same thing right?

Exactly. You can usually tell when it's ghost-written. Lyrics are more universal, no real characteristics

I mean he literally didn't write them down. Still all his imagination, just a lack of pen and paper. That's what he said anyway.

Okay, fair enough my friend. But as for the Eminem comment, technically, that was Eminem's song and he brought it and gave it to Jay. So because of that, it's not as impressive that Eminem outdid Jay on the track.

Genuinely funny.


JAY-Z - THE GREATEST BITER EVER!!!! - YouTube

:laughing:

Jay-Z would recite anything if he thought it'd be successful.

I'm willing to bet any high-profile rapper has a video like that. Every rapper and their grandma has "bitten" off biggie. Even so, it's not ghost written. It's plagiarism which is more or less acceptable.

Jay Z isn't releasing songs like this:


Which i think speaks for itself

I know what ghost writing is smh.

It's widely speculated Lupe wrote for Jay-Z, I don't know if it is true (hence why I asked), it wouldn't surprise me at all if it is true though.

Source: Exclusive Hip Hop News, Audio, Lyrics, Videos, Honeys, Wear, Sneakers, Download Mixtapes

Either way, the Black Album is still overrated.

As for the video, there's paying tribute to another rapper then there's biting.

Lets look at this quote shall we?

first he states he owns a music company that has worked with Jay Z, which handles the "production to consultation to track-brokering, management"
I'm not saying it's beyond the realm of possibility that lupe ghostwrote for Jay Z, but the quote doesn't provide any evidence for it.

I agree Jay Z "bites" (which is why i said plagiarism, and if you think your favorite rapper hasn't done it either-your wrong)

Haven't ever listened to the black album (only remixes) or any Jay Z album at all, so I'm not going to speak for his talent.


Edit:
Here are the writer credits for "what more can i say"
shawn carter(jay z)
thomas bell
roland chambers

The quote doesn't provide 100% evidence no, but it also means it's not beyond the realms of possibility. He admitted he worked with him on the Black Album, it's widely speculated he wrote on it. I think he did. We will never know.

I already knew Lupe wasn't credited for it, that doesn't mean anything.

Can someone find the credits for Return to the 36 Chambers? I'm pretty sure ODB was credited as writing all the tracks yet it's also widely speculated that other Wu members wrote his lyrics.

EDIT - And I disagree with your comment on plagiarism, once or twice, yeah. Jay-Z has done it far too much. He's a fraud.

True, but I'll go with the album credits until otherwise. It's not like other writers aren't listed, just none of them named Lupe Fiasco.

Your saying the other wu members came up with the incoherent rambles of odb?

They had to write the following lyrics for him?

Sure, not beyond realm of possibility, and we will never know. By all means I'm not one to squash a conspiracy

ODB was a lazy bastard, I've seen an interview where he says RZA used to fight him to rhyme because he couldn't be bothered.

I can definitely believe other members wrote for him. Not all of his lyrics, but some of them, and they probably weren't credited for them.

^Which member in particular do you think did most of ODB's writing? RZA? GZA?

Also, what did you think of ODB's second album N***A Please?

Dunno, but I have spoke to a producer who has done work with Wu affiliates and he said the same. I'm pretty certain he did have things written for him.

Was Ice Cube credited for Eazy E's album?

And I haven't heard ODB's second album mate.

^You should listen to it mate, interested to hear what you'd think of it.

Why did Ice Cube write solo stuff for Easy-E anyway? I thought after the dissolution of NWA they were strict rivals?

Dunno why, but

Eazy-E - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of writers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eazy-Duz-It#Track_listing

ODB and Eazy-E's situation isn't too different imo. Both ODB and Eazy-E had charisma coming out of their ears and were definitely unique, but not so good or skilled at rapping, so crew members helped them out and wrote some of their lyrics. Which is why I wouldn't put it past Jay-Z to have someone write for him.

The only track I've heard from the 2nd album is the Neptunes one mate.

I understand now, Easy's debut was released a year before Ice Cube left NWA, that's why he wrote a lot of lyrics for him.

Well, Jay-Z IS better than Nas in several aspects pretty much indisputably.

lol yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of. ;)

Unfortunately for Jay-Z none of them have to do with making music.

lol

:afro:

I dunno, trash Jay Z all you want, sure he sounds like Biggie, but that's like dismissing Action Bronson, a guy I haven't even listened to yet (though i am intrigued because of the following i'm about to say as well as his looking like white Rick Ross), for sounding like Ghostface: It's not easy to sound like such an idiosyncratic musician. Both of those rappers were incredibly complex, and while Biggie was a pioneer many people take influence from, you don't see a lot of people able to completely take on his entire aesthetic. To be able to tackle such a breadth of greatness, and still maintain individuality at the end of the day (who else sounds like Jay really?), takes dedication and talent. Not to say Nas doesn't beat him in the lyrical content department. Jay is all about pizazz, skill, being slick, fly, utilizing sharp wordplay in sometimes odd, pretty much always technically sound rhyme schemes/flow (a classic styled one, of course); whereas Nas was the boom-bap rapper, utilizing minimal, sometimes drollish beats (to me- I'm not fan of Premier's work on Illmatic, regretfully) to get the actual substance of his message across, which is alway dazzling. He's a great storyteller, and one of the few purist's rappers I can really call an interesting rapper, though I do need to listen to him more/listen to more of him.

Wait. How does Jay-Z sound like Biggie?

I think they're both overrated but I'll go with Nas because he's made a couple of good albums. Jay-Z sounds distinctive though in comparison.

In terms of flow and beats, Jay Z wins every time.

I don't think Jay Z sounds like Biggie either, although he might jack Biggie's lines sometimes.

Their voice and delivery don't match up, of course, because their both pretty different personae (besides being major bosses and what have you). But what about the disjointed/oddly syncopated rhyme scheme/flow? The slick super-quotable lines (practically one-liners)? Both were famous for not writing their lyrics down, for crafting and reworking their songs in their head, which is what gave their flows such distinction.

Wait, are you saying Biggie had the quotables or Jay Z does?

Both not that great to be honest. I like one of Biggie's albums a lot though, not sure which.

I don't know about flow. Biggie was a lot smoother than Jay-Z, but I can see what you mean by the syncopated rhymes. They did work firm on a light tone. As for slick... hmmm, well there are way too many rap artists who had a slick tongue, so narrowing it down to those two doesn't really say much. Otherwise, in terms of sound opposed to style, they really don't seem similar.

Biggie is probably the most overrated rap artist I'd say, by the way.

^Does Jay-Z get second most overrated by you? ;)

I think Tupac is more overrated than Biggie to be honest.

Biggie was smooth, but they both still have something slightly off-kilter in their delivery, Jay having it more so in his earlier days.

I find that they were especially slick, with one liners/punchlines that hit especially hard, either by a good build up or by being accentuated by their strange rhyme schemes.

Personally, I think Biggie is pretty untouchable, an artist that no one can really sound like (hence my argument for Jay). He was a better rapper than 2pac, his only competition back in his day, and his only fault in their comparison was his lack of topical/persona range that Pac had. But there aren't many rappers that have the idiosyncrasy in delivery, rhyming, flow, etc. nor with the same amount of lyrical power that BIG had - he could tell a killer story, had great punchlines, and all those other things i already said.

But don't take my word for it, I haven't dug enough through the "Golden Age" rappers and still haven't given L or Pun a good listen yet.

What makes you say that?

Biggie had 2 albums and the 2nd wasn't that great imo. You get the odd person who thinks 2Pac iz da best evr!!1!1one! but he is rated as he should be, an important figure in Hip-Hop and one of the greats.

L was a genius. LODPAD is one of my favourite albums. The Archives and The Big Picture are both great too. Definitely give him a listen.

Did you guys realize today is Jay's birthday? Happy 43rd birthday Jay and thanks for giving the world so much great music! :thumb:

Biggie is so much better than Tupac, its not really debatable.

I don't think starting the Biggie vs Tupac debate is a good idea since it'll probably take over this topic. All I'm going to say is, I absolutely disagree that Biggie was better than Tupac.

Just to simplify things:

Biggie Smalls >>>>>> Nas >>>>>>>>>> Jay-Z > Tupac

You sux. :(

I think its quite debatable lol

Biggie had more hits radio wise that were still dope AF but he did not have as much material as Pac which kind of makes it hard to say. I love em both and to be honest I do like Biggie more but i think when it came down to lyricism Pac was better