Yeah, I do think Jay Z's rep suffers a bit from his general association with acts the "community" may disapprove of, but I have to go with Nas. Some of his songs are boring, but lyrically he's no.1 and that swings it for me.

Pac did that a good four or five years before Jay did it. It is not a classic, every path Jay has trodden in his career was already well worn.

As for Nas' flow... I don't know what to say. His flow is still immaculate as Life is Good proves.

Um...why should someone have to explain to you why Nas is better than Jay-Z? (even though Jay-Z is pretty good).

Cos that's the point of a music discussion forum, we discuss music.

True, Tupac may have done it, but his flow isn't as versatile as Jay's and his beat selection isn't as good.

I'll give you the flow thing, I don't think he was that skilled an MC, especially earlier on in his career at the time he was making songs like Brenda's Got a Baby and Souljah's Story. Pac's flow was kinda one dimensional.

I never had a problem with Pac's beat selection though. He's got many timeless tracks all through his career which I think have aged well.

Just noticed this. You think there are 20 rappers better than Nas?

Heresy.

There's more, but here's my list.

Top Spitta's - Rate Your Music

I don't agree but I rate pretty much all of the guys you chose.

Fair enough I guess.

Props for having Ghostface so high. What's your top 3 Ghostface albums?

Ironman > Fishscale > Supreme Clientele

Supreme Clientelle has always been my favorite.
1. Supreme
2. IronMan
3. Fishscale

What would be your top 5 Wu solo albums overall?

Liquid Swords > Ironman > OB4CL > Return of 36 Chambers > Fishcale

Those first three are the best Wu projects overall.

Not a bad list. You're not a fan of Method Man's solo stuff though? How bout that album he did with Redman, I always thought that was great.

Did you hear Inspectah Deck's first solo album? That was MAD underated.

I would say Liquid Swords > OB4CL > Ironman > Tical > Supreme Clientele, but still a solid list.

Meth & Red's "Blackout!" is one of my favorite albums of all time too.

I love all of those named.

I'd say Ghost is better than Nas or Jay Z

Big Ghost Chronicles still funny as hell

No mentions of Return to the 36 Chambers? I'm not saying it's on the level of Ironman or Liquid Swords (latter being my favourite Wu CD) but it's got some ****ing brilliant tracks on it.

^Yeah, ODBs debut is ace!

That's probably similar to how my list would go, although I'd probably switch Ironman and Supreme.

The best thing about Blackout! in my opinion was the flow. Each song flowed together incredibly! What did you think of Blackout! 2?

I did.

Indeed you did.

I do apologise, most sincerely.

And I accept :D

What did you guys think of Masta Killa and U-God's debut?

I think I listened to them but they didn't make an impression.

I've always liked Jay Z better, but honestly this is sort of like comparing 2 completely different aspects...Jay Z is based more on business while Nas is more indulged into the true culture of hip hop. It's almost like 2 different views of NYC rap, but honestly I've always been way more of a Jay Z fan just due to his delivery, wordplay, and consistency. Growth is important too, Nas has been kind of stagnant in my opinion, Jay Z has grown & moved with the times!

^very true about Nas' limited growth

How can you think Jay-Z is better musically when you admit he is more concerned about business?

Nas hasn't been stagnant either, Illmatic, It Was Written, Stillmatic, I Am, God's Son, Hip Hop is Dead, The Lost Tapes and Life is Good are all good albums, some of them are great. The rest (ones I haven't listed) are either average or just not very good.

Jay-Z in my opinion has 1 good album, a couple of average ones and the rest are terrible. You've just rattled off a load of cliche's there about consistency. The only way Jay-Z has grown is by adapting to contemporary trends purely to sell music. And he just dickrides whoever is the flavour of the month.

Jay-Z's music is unimaginitive, unthreatening and 100% vanilla.

Jay-Z is more interesting musically, that's pretty obvious.

How so?

The production he goes over is more interesting. Not always to my tastes but it's certainly a step above the standard Nas beat.

I think I've mentioned this already in the thread and said something about Jay-Z's production being boring for the most part other than a few Just Blaze beats.

I'm not saying beat selection is Nas' strong point (Illmatic, It Was Written and Life is Good are all very good in that respect imo), but the beats he picks allow his vocals to take the lead, whereas it's the opposite for Jay-Z, most of his popular tracks are popular because people liked the beat. He's a very boring rapper. Good at rhyming but so are a lot of people that aren't rated anywhere near Jay-Z is.

We all know Nas is a better lyricist.

Nas is just better.

Tbh I find lines like "Jay-Z picks amazing beats" and "Jay-Z is consistent" just regurgitated cliches.

You could put their albums against each other and Nas would come out on top, even a Jay-Z fan couldn't say Jay-Z has had more than 3 good albums. Nas has had more than 3, so I don't buy the consistency argument at all.

Nas doesn't try to pick the most structured or technical beats because that's not the sort of rapper he is.


NaS - Halftime (complete with lyrics) - YouTube

Undoubtedly a classic but the beat is very simple, it doesn't mean it's poor though, and it allows Nas to play to his strengths. Jay-Z has no strengths as a rapper, relies on the beats to carry his tracks. He's a jack of all trades master of nothing.

Not really sure who you are arguing with. Jay-Z has better production, you even admitted that's what has made him so popular.

Not arguing, just giving reasoning for my opinions. I personally don't think he does have better production. I think people who listen to him in 2012 like the beats because they are "catchy" and are not really bothered about him, but that doesn't mean the beats are better.

The stuff he's been doing with Kanye is overproduced rubbish yet the production gets praised simply because it's Kanye and he's regarded as a great producer.

He is a great producer. The production on The Blueprint is great. Every Jay Z album has had great production.

He's good but he's overrated.

And WTT is awful.

Make up your mind, is he good or does he have no rap skills?

You obviously have not heard Jay-Z's stuff. You don't know what good rapping is if you've heard "The Blueprint" and "Reasonable Doubt" and don't think the rapping on those is good.

....

Oh, and Jay-Z easily has 5 great albums.
Reasonable Doubt
In My Lifetime
Blueprint
Black Album
American Gangster

I wouldn't use the word "great" for all of those buy I agree that he certainly isn't bad.