Jay-Z vs. Nas

FrigginParadox · 12-04-2012, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Perhaps but I know college guys who listen to them

wow ok now that is very strange hahaha

and Jans has a point

**Janszoon** · 12-04-2012, 10:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Smegma covered bell-end

But you said 2Pac is awful though when all you meant was his music is dull and bores you. You don't see a difference between me saying Jay-Z is awful and I can't stand him but he is decent at what he does?

Decent at making crappy music, sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smegma covered bell-end

Personal opinion isn't synonymous with fact. I was discussing The Smiths with someone the other day and they said any band in the world is better than them because he hates them. How does that work? If I hated Led Zep I'd just say I don't like them, I wouldn't say they are awful because that is obviously not true, awful would be someone like LMFAO.

Personal opinion isn't synonymous with fact. Exactly. The Smiths aren't factually good, I just like them.

But let's discuss your example of LMFAO. You think they're terrible, I actually think they're a decent pop group. Imagine they somehow remain popular for the next 15 years and even *gasp* influence people. Would you start thinking they should be immune to criticism or would you still think they were terrible? I ask this question because it was my exact experience with Jay-Z.

midnight rain · 12-04-2012, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Okay. Now imagine if you will that One Direction continues being popular for the next 15 years—no increase in quality or anything, they just continue to be popular. Would you at that point decide that they're somehow good? If people told you that they were influential, would you suddenly regard them as worthwhile?

I don't see it being the case. The whole idea behind being influential is that you were groundbreaking in some respect, that you did something new that a lot of artists hoped to emulate. It's like saying The Hives were influential to a bunch of post-punk revival bands when all they did was emulate bands that came before them.

I think it kind of is an antithesis to the whole bottom line behind being influential.

Sparky · 12-04-2012, 10:43 PM

janz using hypothetical scenario's to prove invalid point

lmfao, one direction are the product of a team of musicians, they're merely there to sell the image. I'm sure LMFAOs songwriters are going to be getting paid a decade later in some form.

FrigginParadox · 12-04-2012, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky

janz using hypothetical scenario's to prove invalid point

lmfao, one direction are the product of a team of musicians, they're merely there to sell the image. I'm sure LMFAOs songwriters are going to be getting paid a decade later in some form.

Exactly, music like that is made to be trendy and hit makers purely for money

midnight rain · 12-04-2012, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky

janz using hypothetical scenario's to prove invalid point

lmfao, one direction are the product of a team of musicians, they're merely there to sell the image. I'm sure LMFAOs songwriters are going to be getting paid a decade later in some form.

Yeah the whole thing about being influential is that you did something worth emulating. Not sure One Direction has done anything worth a salt

**Janszoon** · 12-04-2012, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

I don't see it being the case. The whole idea behind being influential is that you were groundbreaking in some respect, that you did something new that a lot of artists hoped to emulate. It's like saying The Hives were influential to a bunch of post-punk revival bands when all they did was emulate bands that came before them.

I think it kind of is an antithesis to the whole bottom line behind being influential.

But what I'm saying is that, when I first heard Jay-Z back in the 90s, he wasn't groundbreaking. He wasn't anything new. He was just another generic guy with a hit song. But he continued to be popular year after year and then at some point I started encountering people like yourself who consider him some sort of unassailable icon. What I'm asking you is, if you were in that boat, would you suddenly decide the crappy guy wasn't crappy?

Sparky · 12-04-2012, 10:52 PM

janz are you seriously unable to see why someone else would like jay z?

midnight rain · 12-04-2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

But what I'm saying is that, when I first heard Jay-Z back in the 90s, he wasn't groundbreaking. He wasn't anything new. He was just another generic guy with a hit song. But he continued to be popular year after year and then at some point I started encountering people like yourself who consider him some sort of unassailable icon. What I'm asking you is, if you were in that boat, would you suddenly decide the crappy guy wasn't crappy?

I still think Bob Dylan is crappy, despite the praise heaped on him. So it's not a matter of converting personal opinion so much as recognizing what the artist did.

And I know this conversation started with you dissing Jay-Z, but as someone who's not a big fan I'm not gonna try and justify his greatness (someone else is surely more qualified and knowledgable to do that). This is coming more from your opinion on 2pac

**Janszoon** · 12-04-2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky

janz using hypothetical scenario's to prove invalid point

lmfao, one direction are the product of a team of musicians, they're merely there to sell the image. I'm sure LMFAOs songwriters are going to be getting paid a decade later in some form.

Totally missing the point there Sparky. The example has nothing to do with LMFAO. Pick any current artist that you find generic and uninteresting as an example and imagine some time in the future when some people consider them one of "the greats". Would you suddenly start considering them great?

12-04-2012, 10:43 PM	#164 (permalink)
Sparky not really Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,223	janz using hypothetical scenario's to prove invalid point lmfao, one direction are the product of a team of musicians, they're merely there to sell the image. I'm sure LMFAOs songwriters are going to be getting paid a decade later in some form.

12-04-2012, 10:52 PM	#168 (permalink)
Sparky not really Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,223	janz are you seriously unable to see why someone else would like jay z?