wow ok now that is very strange hahaha

and Jans has a point

Decent at making crappy music, sure.

Personal opinion isn't synonymous with fact. Exactly. The Smiths aren't factually good, I just like them.

But let's discuss your example of LMFAO. You think they're terrible, I actually think they're a decent pop group. Imagine they somehow remain popular for the next 15 years and even *gasp* influence people. Would you start thinking they should be immune to criticism or would you still think they were terrible? I ask this question because it was my exact experience with Jay-Z.

I don't see it being the case. The whole idea behind being influential is that you were groundbreaking in some respect, that you did something new that a lot of artists hoped to emulate. It's like saying The Hives were influential to a bunch of post-punk revival bands when all they did was emulate bands that came before them.

I think it kind of is an antithesis to the whole bottom line behind being influential.

janz using hypothetical scenario's to prove invalid point

lmfao, one direction are the product of a team of musicians, they're merely there to sell the image. I'm sure LMFAOs songwriters are going to be getting paid a decade later in some form.

Exactly, music like that is made to be trendy and hit makers purely for money

Yeah the whole thing about being influential is that you did something worth emulating. Not sure One Direction has done anything worth a salt :laughing:

But what I'm saying is that, when I first heard Jay-Z back in the 90s, he wasn't groundbreaking. He wasn't anything new. He was just another generic guy with a hit song. But he continued to be popular year after year and then at some point I started encountering people like yourself who consider him some sort of unassailable icon. What I'm asking you is, if you were in that boat, would you suddenly decide the crappy guy wasn't crappy?

janz are you seriously unable to see why someone else would like jay z?

I still think Bob Dylan is crappy, despite the praise heaped on him. So it's not a matter of converting personal opinion so much as recognizing what the artist did.

And I know this conversation started with you dissing Jay-Z, but as someone who's not a big fan I'm not gonna try and justify his greatness (someone else is surely more qualified and knowledgable to do that). This is coming more from your opinion on 2pac ;)

Totally missing the point there Sparky. The example has nothing to do with LMFAO. Pick any current artist that you find generic and uninteresting as an example and imagine some time in the future when some people consider them one of "the greats". Would you suddenly start considering them great?