Not another 'state of hip-hop today' thread

[Kirby]

*butting in*

I have to say that my favorite Atmosphere album would be Lucy Ford.
How fantastic the entire album is...It's outstanding.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by pourmeanother

Funny you ask, I was just mulling this over the other day. Each album brings different themes to the table: introspective, angry, upbeat, dark, etc. So, it's easy for my "favorite" Atmosphere album to change depending on my mood, my environment, the season, and so on. Slug and Ant are both consistent in that they never totally fall flat for me, and they are constantly adapting and changing. Ant's beats jump all around- from percussion to piano to soul to this to that...

If I'm not dodging the question like I did ^there ... I guess my favorite is probably Lucy Ford or God Loves Ugly. 1a and 1b, really. Seven's Travels, despite having some standout tracks, has never really ranked as high with me. The more recent albums are great, just a peg or two below those two for me. There are some great EPs, but can't compare those to the full lengths.

How about yourself?

I'm pretty big on Lucy Ford. I think Headshots: Se7en is underrated, too.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by Jester

I'm pretty big on Lucy Ford. I think Headshots: Se7en is underrated, too.

Headshots: Se7en is definitely underrated.
Definitely show's how talented Slug (and the guests) were back then, too.

[Jester]

Sess is awesome.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by anticipation

do you know what cognitive dissonance is? gangster rap was and is essential to hip hop, everything that preceded pioneers like NWA, Kool G Rap, and to a lesser extent EPMD is not necessarily the end-all be-all of rap. these mc's were the catalysts for those blaxploitation films you're talking about, they provided the stereotypes that the middle and upper classes try to emulate so desperately. their lives were filled with inner city violence and narcotic trafficing, so for you to say that they are betraying some banal, idealistic notion of hip hop that you hold by rhyming about their own experiences is ridiculous. the subject matter of a rapper's music is immaterial, it is how well they convey their message that determines their worth.

I agree that gangster rap was essential because at the time it was breaking the mould but every little boy in every little ghetto (and suburb and pretty much everywhere) thinks he can be a rapper now. Everyone just wants to do what is already being done. They want to copy, they want to emulate. Name me one mainstream (or underground) gangster rapper and i can name you a thousand who talk about the exact same ****.

And the subject matter does matter. It's the same bull**** over and over and over and over. It's boring and pointless. What message are they trying to convey? oh look at me im hardcore because i sell drugs and have a really cool car. bang bang goes my gun now i killed your mum **** your sister in the ass blah blah blah. It's uncreative and dull. All these rappers that are making millions are talentless as far as lyricism is concerned. They're great as male models and as stage performers but they are not rappers.

And yes SOME of them had their lives filled with inner city violence, drugs ect Although i would bet my life that only one in every hundred gangster rapper has ever seen the things he is talking about. And if they are in the mainstream and making millions then their life is no longer surrounded by those things. I don't want to hear some roid junkie who thinks he's gangster telling me how gangster he is while he shakes hands with beyonce.


The aim was breaking the mould not fitting the part.

Originally Posted by Jester

You don't have to be involved with those kinds of things to find them interesting or intriguing. There is no concrete "THIS IS WHAT RAP IS ABOUT" standard, that's bullshit. If you can only rap about things that you have truly experienced and been a part of, then the genre has become limited and therefore sucks. You're stuck on "people rap gangsta rap to make money," which is totally irrelevant. Gangsta rap isn't ruining rap. It's the lack of creativity by rappers. There's no topic that should be excluded from music. Especially rap.

I didn't say you have to be involved to find it interesting. I already told you there is enteretaining gangster rappers out there. But they are entertaining the same way a vin diesel movie is entertaining. And i didn't say only rap about things you have truly experienced, you can tell storys, express your thoughts, express your feelings, express your opinions. That is what art is for. Expressing yourself.

And that lack of creativity you mentioned goes hand in hand with gangster rap. There is no gangster rapper out there who is doing things differently (not now). They are all the same.

To repeat myself yet again, You want to know how to tell if someone is a good rapper? read their lyrics. If they mean something written down then they have succeeded as a rapper.

People enjoy gangster rap cause it entertains them but it's the same bull**** over and over. You can talk about ghettos and the trials and tribulations ect without acting gangster. Look at Zion I they're a prime example, they are against gangster rap but grew up in the sort of places these rappers talk about, they try to educate people (especially kids) to show them that you don't have to be a gangster to make a success of yourself.

Another reason gangster rap is ruining the culture is because now anyone thinks they can do it. People who have no understanding of lyricism or the rap culture are becoming famous and making millions. Prime example is 50 cent(although pretty much every rapper in the american mainstream and most of the underground fits this pretty well to). He has no talent as a lyricist at all.

I don't know what is worse, a no-talented ignorant prick who has no grasp of lyricism or this culture who thinks if he talks about guns and ****in women he's a rapper

or

An extremely talented lyricist who wastes his skill trying to make himself look cool.


The early gangster rappers the people who pioneered it the likes of tupac and N.W.A, they weren't doing it to be cool. They were doing it to get peoples attention and to make people realise what life was like for minorities in ghettos ect. Now, gangster rappers are selfish, incompetent, idiots.




"they start to feel his vibe, cause his rhyming is hot
so the deal arrives, and he just signs on the dot
it started so simply, all about the words that you say
but now this jerks getting paid off his work when it's played
and he aint getting **** just a few perks of the trade
he see's the real industry and what lurks in the shade
cause everything he worked for, the struggle to build, the love and the skill,
aint worth **** next to a couple of mil."

"So he sits back, feels lame dated and old,
the games taking it's toll the fames raping the soul,
- of this industry, 'cause they forgot that this is art,
the aim was breaking the mould not trying to fit the part,
but if he spits it smart he can hit the heart,
he only got one dart and he aint gonna miss the mark."


"
dedicated to the emcee...
That kid with an idea who catches the bus,
who writes life through his eyes that's attached to a brush
and he paints the world exactly how he see's it
and if rhyming is a secret i don't know how he keeps it
but believe me it's some deep **** and these kids will relate
you can't see it, but you feel it like a kick in the face
and when he grows up, ****, so will his rhymes
time after time again he'll keep blowing your mind
his flow is devine just a young buck with a curse
he sets fire to a cypher with a couple of words"



"its a damn shame that their life has a price
but they cant touch me or tell me what to rhyme on this mic
so i rhyme what i like, trying to bring that love back!"

[Jester]

So because some stupid people aren't doing it right, the whole thing sucks?

While a majority of the importance of being a good rapper is in the lyrics, that's not all it takes.

Your complaint should lie with a lack of creativity, not gangsta rap. You're dismissing an idea because a lot of people are doing it wrong.

Also: A big part of rap is the brag and the ego. I don't see how you can possibly say having an ego in your rap is stupid, and at the same time say that you like rap.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Jester

Also: A big part of rap is the brag and the ego. I don't see how you can possibly say having an ego in your rap is stupid, and at the same time say that you like rap.

No it's not and it never was. A lot of rappers have big ego's that doesn't make it a part of rap. That's like saying part of being a guitarist is snorting cocaine.

and i didn't say having an ego was stupid. But arrogance is something you have to earn, talented lyricists have earned the right to be arrogant and egotistical because they are great at what they do. Being arrogant and saying you're the best without being able to back it up is at the very least foolish.

I'm not dismissing the idea at all. I've already acknowledged there is/was good gangster rappers e.g Big Pun, Big L and Royce 5'9. All i said was by fitting around the stereotype of rap music (guns, whores, drugs and chrome plating everything) they are wasting their talent.


I repeat, yet again, and for the last time.

"the aim was breaking the mould not trying to fit the part"



as for "the majority of rap lies within the lyrics but that's not all it takes". You're right, you need to have a good delivery, good flow, good rhythm and to be a truely multidimensional emcee you need to be well rounded. But looking sexy, being muscular and having lots of money are not essential to any music genre.


"So because some stupid people aren't doing it right, the whole thing sucks?"

No, actually it's a lot simpler than that. It's just this, "the whole thing sucks". It isn't a case of "some stupid people aren't doing it right". There is literally only one gangster rapper i can think of who is still releasing music and is a talented lyricist. But again, he is just fitting around the usual stuff. His first couple of albums had some different things and i was excited because it felt like he was trying to be more than just your run-of-the-mill gangster rapper. Unfortunately he slowly headed in a downward spiral and is now just a more talented version of 50cent, lil wayne, ludacris or any other gangster rapper.

I'm not saying gangster rap isn't entertaining. I'm just saying it isn't what rap should be. Vin diesel movies are entertaining but i'd rather watch robert de niro or michael caine.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

No it's not and it never was. A lot of rappers have big ego's that doesn't make it a part of rap. That's like saying part of being a guitarist is snorting cocaine.

and i didn't say having an ego was stupid. But arrogance is something you have to earn, talented lyricists have earned the right to be arrogant and egotistical because they are great at what they do. Being arrogant and saying you're the best without being able to back it up is at the very least foolish.

I'm not dismissing the idea at all. I've already acknowledged there is/was good gangster rappers e.g Big Pun, Big L and Royce 5'9. All i said was by fitting around the stereotype of rap music (guns, whores, drugs and chrome plating everything) they are wasting their talent.


I repeat, yet again, and for the last time.

"the aim was breaking the mould not trying to fit the part"



as for "the majority of rap lies within the lyrics but that's not all it takes". You're right, you need to have a good delivery, good flow, good rhythm and to be a truely multidimensional emcee you need to be well rounded. But looking sexy, being muscular and having lots of money are not essential to any music genre.


"So because some stupid people aren't doing it right, the whole thing sucks?"

No, actually it's a lot simpler than that. It's just this, "the whole thing sucks". It isn't a case of "some stupid people aren't doing it right". There is literally only one gangster rapper i can think of who is still releasing music and is a talented lyricist. But again, he is just fitting around the usual stuff. His first couple of albums had some different things and i was excited because it felt like he was trying to be more than just your run-of-the-mill gangster rapper. Unfortunately he slowly headed in a downward spiral and is now just a more talented version of 50cent, lil wayne, ludacris or any other gangster rapper.

I'm not saying gangster rap isn't entertaining. I'm just saying it isn't what rap should be. Vin diesel movies are entertaining but i'd rather watch robert de niro or michael caine.

Since the beginning, the brag has been a big part of rap. Battle rapping is a huge part of the hip hop culture, and so is competition. Why do you think feuds are more common in hop hop than other genres?

I don't think you're understanding how necessary it is that gangsta rap exists. Rapping about certain topics doesn't mean someone is instantly "wasting their talent." You're saying that an entire dimension of rap should not exist, and more specifically, the one that all kinds of different rap ideas spawned from. There are a lot of layers to gangsta rap, and just like any topic, there are many ways to approach it. Don't dismiss it entirely.

Just because something has become a stereotype doesn't mean it's a bad thing. There is no topic that people "should not rap about" or "should rap about." Don't choke the freedom that rap represents, man.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Jester

Since the beginning, the brag has been a big part of rap. Battle rapping is a huge part of the hip hop culture, and so is competition. Why do you think feuds are more common in hop hop than other genres?

It isn't more common it's just more obvious because rappers have the ability to diss each other in songs and they use that to make more money also because gangster rap has made people think rap is all about being tough and proving your male dominance. As for the bragging, yes bragging is a big part of rap especially battle rap but you can brag and not be egotistical or arrogant. It's just an act. Also if all you do is brag in a battle you're going to get slaughtered. Battles are about pointing out your opponents flaws not speaking about why you're better. You do realise lines like "i got the biggest guns and moneys ya know?" and "im stylin' on you!" wouldn't actually work against a real battle rapper.

I don't think you're understanding how necessary it is that gangsta rap exists. Rapping about certain topics doesn't mean someone is instantly "wasting their talent." You're saying that an entire dimension of rap should not exist, and more specifically, the one that all kinds of different rap ideas spawned from. There are a lot of layers to gangsta rap, and just like any topic, there are many ways to approach it. Don't dismiss it entirely.

Gangster rap wasn't a necessity when rap began. Why is it a necessity now? and what's spawned from gangster rap? crunk? Rap was about expressing yourself as all art forms are. You're acting as if gangster rap was the first kind of rap that existed.

How many times should i repeat myself? I'm not dimissing gangster rap i already told you there was good gangster rappers and some of it is entertaining.

But i do feel they are wasting their talent. People like Royce are truely gifted as lyricists, he is incredibly intelligent so why should he have to belittle himself to rapping about guns and drugs just so brainwashed idiots will listen to his music? Imagine if every movie producer, painter, photographer, musician just copied exactly what other people were doing. That is what's happening to rap. People who aren't involved in the culture dismiss rap as misogynistic and uneducated. They see it as cheap and most don't even recognise it as a form of music because the mainstream is filled with fools who are not talented as lyricists and somehow manage to make millions (usually due to their appearance or hiring a top notch producer/dj).


Just because something has become a stereotype doesn't mean it's a bad thing. There is no topic that people "should not rap about" or "should rap about." Don't choke the freedom that rap represents, man.

oh great you pulled the freedom of speech card, should've saw that coming.

"LOST
Is when you hide behind the freedom of speech
Well, sure you're free to do it
But what it mean to do it?
Did you mean to do it?
Did you need to do it?
Did you take time to think about the seeds you ruined?"

Never thought i'd find myself quoting will smith but there you go.

Actually it seems will smith (despite having ghost writers and stealing other rappers lines) can express what i'm trying to say quite well.

"Why should I try to sound like ya'll sound
That's what's wrong with the rap game right now
Man, it's like a circus wit a bunch of clowns
Wit a bunch of clicks I'll probably rap circles around"

"(Yup) truck wit rims (check) throw back jersey (check)
champagne bottles (check) lot's of models (check)
Damn that's the list for 90 percent of ya'll videos and songs
Am I wrong?!"



Who would think that while debating about talented rappers someone would quote will smith

replies in bold.

[Jester]

It's not more obvious, anyone has the ability to "diss" each other with music; perhaps instrumentals would be a lot more difficult, but there are plenty of genres where feuds can happen that aren't rap. Rap battles were a huge part of hip hop's history, and self promotion is a part of the game.

There's more than one focus point in battling and rapping. How can you say bragging is a big part of rap and say "it's okay because it's an act." Okay, then gangsta rap is okay because it's an act. It's entertainment, and there's always room for creativity.

Yes it was. It's a necessity because it allowed for so much expansion. Political rap and story telling excelled with gangsta rap, and not to mention, backpack and alternative rap come from opposing gangsta rap. All that "keepin' it real, not rappin' like i'm a gangsta" rap that you like comes from gangsta rap. I'm not acting like it's the first kind that existed, but it definitely caused the most expansion.

You're repeating yourself because you're contradicting yourself. You're telling me that GANGSTA RAP SUCKS and then saying BUT THERE ARE SOME THAT I LIKE. Either say it all sucks or admit that it doesn't all suck.

Gangsta rap has its place. If no one ever rapped about it, then there would be less diversity. Also, why the fuck would there not be gangsta rap? Songs are a reflection of our society, why shouldn't people rap about that?

Yeah, I strongly believe that people should rap about (or talk about) what they want to. But freedom of speech isn't all I was talking about. Had you been paying attention, you would have realized that I mentioned to not put strain on the topics that an artist can select from.

Lastly, give me a direct explanation as to why guns, drugs, or sex is for stupid people.