Yeah.

Ok, this is like flogging a dead horse. I think we've established i'm not particularly happy with the final but people quite obviously disagree so fair play i guess.

ALTHOUGH, i can think of at least 10 acts off the top of my head that are better, more consistant and more influential than MF, whilst as much as i love 36 Chambers, you cant win something like this on one album. It's like The Pretty Things winning the classic/psychedelic battle.

Between 36 Chambers and Madvilliany 36 gets it, just.

You vilify his opinion that PE shouldn't be in the final 2, and justify it with... your opinion.

I personally agree with, wait, I forget who you were talking about this with. FaSho? Anyway, I agree with FaSho (?) in that I wasn't voting based on influence or reputation or any of that.

Also, I don't think this is the most indicative final just based on the format. IMO you have to do this March Madness style with nominations, then voting to rank them in seedings, then playing 1 v. 1 matchups. I ran a "Hottest Woman" tournament this way and it worked out pretty well :yeah:

Yeah, it's called disagreeing.

Never said it was.

Agreed on the first part, but 1v1 matchups do nothing to solve this.

MF Doom for me

in response to haters: my statement was based soley upon musical importance, not innovation and certainly not political importance. let's break it down, shall we?

Public Enemy's albums of importance:

Yo! Bum Rush the Show!: their debut, and in essence only had two good songs (You're Gonna Get Yours and Public Enemy No 1). This album is often just a footnote in the cannon of PE, as it should be.

It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back: probably their most revered and popular album. but why? most of the songs feature sub par beats at best, and of course with chuck d's political nonsense being yelled over them. "Bring the Noise" is basically a militant nursery rhyme with instances of flava flav talking over a typical 80s beat, one that sounds like a bunch of kids beating on garbage cans while someone plays a saxophone. "Don't Believe the Hype" had a horrible beat, worse production, and the lyrics are cliche and boring. This album's saving grace was "Night of the Living Baseheads", which i'll admit is a great song. However, the strength of one song does not make up for it's vast shortcomings.

Fear of a Black Planet: the follow up to their most popular album, perhaps the only tolerable song on this entire album is "Welcome to the Terrordome". This album featured more wordplay by flava, although i have no idea why. His speech is so slurred that most of the time i can't understand a word he's saying, even though i don't think his lyrics contain any significance anyway. "Fight the Power" is another gem on an otherwise worthless follow up to "It takes a nation...", still it's highly overrated. The rest of the songs on the album are unenjoyable and inconsistent.

so, basically public enemy is just another case of a band being slightly different than it's peers, if only in subject matter, and becoming so overhyped that it's nearly universally liked without cause. the rapping is barely decent, Chuck D was a cultural icon and a mouthpiece for the black militant movement first and foremost, not a lyricist. The rest of the crew was basically a marching band, with black fists raised and following whatever Chuck said. Lastly, any group with a hype man, aka Flava Flav, cannot even be taken seriously by a true hip hop fan. What purpose does he serve? if they cannot attract enough attention by the strength of their music alone, then why continue making it?

What Hip Hop artist was anywhere near as heavy as PE before PE?

I never said it was solely on political importance, it just adds to their lyrical talent.

this is all subjective opinion (at least you like Baseheads), and rather that just tell you that it's wrongwrongwrong, I'll say you are in the tiny minority of hip-hop fans (assuming you claim to be one?) that doesn't love Public Enemy or at least respect them.
Forget the insane multi-layered sampling barrage and the groundbreaking lyrics and intelligence, they are just, for want of a better word, nang. End of.

MF Doom is a top lyricist and producer of contemporary times, that's why I chose him, and I would have still chosen him if P.E. were up in the final.

Wu Tang, this final should have been much better.

Wu-Tang may have intimidating Kung Fu moves but MF Doom can blow up the Earth with a laser beam from a secret base on the moon. I'm voting Doom.

Good point.

That's what I thought.

That's why you made it though. Duh!

I was just emphasizing what an awesome and important point it was.

Oh, I understand now. Sorry for the arrogance. :(

Wasn't this a King Emperor song?

As Mole said, subjective viewpoint. IMO Yo! is an excellent album, one of the best hip hop debuts well.. ever. And how you dont think Apocalypse 91' isnt of importance in the PE discography is beyond me. Basically MF just does not measure up IMO. At least he isnt winning anymore :)