Jay-Z: is he really all that good? POLL
 

I just want to address this specific question which is why I didn't look for any old Jay-Z thread to resurrect. It'd also be good to have this as a poll.

The question is, is Jay-Z really a particularly good rapper? I wasn't listening to much rap at the time that he was at the top of his game, but I've since listened quite a bit to his entire discography and my overriding feeling is just a great sense of being underwhelmed. The actual delivery is not particularly impressive, and the rhymes/content are often just really poor, bland and cliched. I'd be half inclined to say that even somebody like 50 Cent was, at his best, considerably more talented as a wordsmith.

Where did Jay-Z get all his huge acclaim from?

I'm not totally clued up from head to toe on my knowledge, but I'm pretty sure his pairing with biggie smalls gained him some glory, then there's the whole rivalry with nas.

I have added a poll for you. If you want to tweak it, just PM me. From what I have heard I don't rate him at all. My son has got a couple of albums but they did nothing for me at all.

So just how DID this guy get so huge? It's one of the greatest mysteries of the mainstream as far as I'm concerned. With others, you can generally understand how it came to be that they got to where they are, whether you like them or despise them. But Jay-Z is just a baffling mystery if ever there was one.

Just to give an idea of how HUGE he is, for those who are not in the know: the Beatles have had 19 number one US albums. In a joint second place is Elvis Presley...

and...

yep, Jay-Z. And that's saying a whole lot.

You have a point, the amount of hits he's had doesn't really measure up properly to how popular he is, what with headlining festivals and his reputation. Collaborations go a long way i guess.

I'd imagine he got there because he's the most talented rapper that has been.

Argue all you want but rap has a way of forgetting you before your first album is done being poached of singles by the radio. You don't become a mainstream rap act with luck.

I was more alluding to clever marketing. Not luck. The former is nothing new. Tupac still sells records more than a decade after getting assassinated. He was never a skillful rapper (not compared to the creative standards of the time - Biggie, Nas etc.), and nobody with half a brain would claim that he was.

He did cover a song from the musical Annie, that's something lucrative right there.

I voted No. I don't really question his huge success because mainstream rap is a joke but I still don't understand why he has some sort of credible rapper aura about him that Kanye does.

Indeed, it almost seems like the guy's whole career has been built on lucrative pop-hop collaborations etc.

This is true, though the strange thing is that in the case of Kanye West, any actual fan of him with a shred of knowledge about MCing and wider rap generally seems to acknowledge that his musical skills do not really lie in the rhyming/rapping department. But when it comes to Jay-Z, people genuinely think he's all-round amazing - and for what?

Because it makes critics look hip.

I don't really know enough about him to vote. All I know is that what little I have heard by him is utter shit.

The Black Album is solid enough for me to say he's talented, but overall he's nothing special.

I think the mass media credits him with being a "lyrical genius" much in the same way (as ethan previously pointed out) kanye west gets credited

Simply because, when compared to souljah boy, three 6 mafia, lil wayne etc he is a genuis

But put him on the same stage with other qualified artists and he hardly holds up.

It probably didn't hurt his image that he knew Biggie.

Say wha'? A genius compare to Lil Wayne? Wayne may be no genius himself, but he can rhyme as good as Jay-Z that's for sure!

People saying lil Wayne can rhyme is something i will never understand.
"old her to back it up
Like berp berp
And I made that ass jump
Like jerp jerp
And thats when she..."

Granted thats one example, but thats what i hear on the radio 3 times a day. I dont find the guy clever, original, interesting or any of the like, and i dont get why the press has all of a sudden granted him "rapper of the year" title.

Talented? Sure.
That good? Naw.

His competition is Kanye, 50 Cent and Jay-Z. I know I'd much rather listen to Lil Wayne than them.

Why?
What makes him stand out?

He's actually enjoyable in a comedic way and the other three aren't.

Then why do people hate souljah boy?
It's not like his style and clown-like behavior is unique or uncommon in the genre.
Why isn't MIM's considered great? "This is why im hot"is as good of a hook as "she licks me like a lollipop"

Hey don't blame me for people's lack of a humor. I don't mind Souljah Boy I just find Lil Wayne's lyrics far more amusing than his.

I think that anyone capable of singing and writing songs is a talented person =) So I voted for yes!

wow! its tied 6 to 6!
i think that he is a very talented rapper but i believe that he has been hyped up way too much. but most of his stuff is pretty solid.

Reasonable Doubt is the only thing close to good he's made. I have it at 3.5 stars on RYM.

Reasonable Doubt is an amazing hip hop album. And how can you say that the Black Album isnt good. Its another great album. I love Jay Z, he's got a great, original flow and writes sick rhymes.

Yeah actually I think I'm letting my indie snobbery get the best of me here. He isn't really my style of hip hop but the Black Album is excellent, the Blueprint isn't bad either. He's mad overrated sure but any hip hop artist with any talent whatsoever that breaks into the mainstream generally is.

"There's never been a nigga this good for this long
This hood
Or this pop this hot
Or this strong
With so many different flows
This ones for this song"

He even said it himself.

He's a pretty hit and miss lyricist, even if his flow's tight. Yah, The Black Album's alright as well, but American Gangster was total ****.

I didnt mind American Gangster.

Really? Maybe it's because I heard Blue Magic seemingly on repeat for a month straight.

I agree with you there. And let's not forget he doesnt write anything down. It all comes from the head.

Uh, isn't Rap number 1 in industry sales? :laughing: Yah, it's impressive he's managed to stay on top for so long, but all that tells you is he's the best of the crap he has for competition.

Mainstream rap's been on a steady decline sales wise. It's more people like Kanye West doing so well as individual's as opposed to the genre itself doing well.

The industry's been in decline. Rap's still number 1, whatever way you look at it.

rap sells decline - Google Search

You'll find tons of articles on it there, rap in particular has been having troubles selling.

More focus is being put on mp3's and ringtones. And in that respect rap is dominating.

Illegal downloading and piracy is also higher then ever, and you could argue that a large amount of the people who listen to rap are younger and would be the ones to use limewire etc.

Regardless, it's still the dominant music form in America and it's ridiculous to say that it doesn't sell.

It is true that rap IN PARTICULAR, as was said, has experienced a huge, sharp decline in sales that is simply not consistent with a general decline. It's quite a well-known issue so there's no use in trying to get around it. There was a time that new rappers were popping out right, left and centre, and without even being particularly good could have a massive hit and a sellout album, just as that is still possible for the latest new pop diva etc. Rap fans, on the other hand, have grown a lot more skeptical in recent times, finding themselves increasingly disappointed with the industry's output and, courtesy of the last 7 or so years, the cliche-ridden themes that have permeated the mainstream. Consider the Billboard top 100 at the present moment. In the top 10 there is not a single rap song, even Lil Wayne's Lollipop is not rap. Pick up the charts back in the late 90s though, and it was quite a different story (this is one of the examples used on a TV news item on the subject). Album sales reveal a similar trend.

The dominant format today is all this urban pop stuff. And then, pop more generally.

Yes, regardless of its popularity and sales goig down as Proggy said it is absurd to believe it is not one of the top (if not the top) form of music in this country.