2Pac vs. Biggie

Axiomatic Wiki · 12-04-2009, 03:54 AM

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Also Tupac wasn't just all talk like most rappers. He was an active member of the black panther party.

Being part of the black equivalent to the KKK is supposed to be an honorable thing?

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Yes but not nearly as much as gangster rap.

Gangster rap should not have even existed. It created the worst form of hip hop for its time, and is what lead to the **** rap that is now plaguing the mainstream. The fact that TuPac is part of this, makes me hate him even more..

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And not forgetting that he was a poet as well as a rapper.

Name one rapper who could not be considered a poet

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Plus he was a reasonably successful actor. He was an all-round better entertainer than biggy

He was famous before he got the parts in the movies, it had nothing to do with any sort of acting skill. He was much more popular than biggie, and more established,. so of course he got acting jobs when Biggie did not. We are not discussing who was the better entertainer, but who was the better hip hop artist, a title that without a doubt, should go to the better rapper, being Biggie.

Why was Biggie a better rapper? Because he represented and expounded on what hip hop is, in my opinion, really about. And that is lyricism. His rhymes were so much better, so much more flavorful, and so much more complex than Tupac's. I can not fathom why people enjoy hip hop for other reasons besides lyrical rhyme skill, which Tupac completely lacked. There is nothing melodic, and nothing complexly rhythmical, in Tupac's music. It is not only not as good as Biggie, but a hell of a lot worse than many other rappers out there. Few things have had such a horrible effect on music as the west coast had on hip hop. Completely turning a beautiful art into bull crap single syllable rhymes. Biggie did not neglect the fact that good rap needed good rhymes. He is not nearly the greatest lyricist to ever exist, but he is, at least, a lyricist, something that only a fool would consider Tupac to be.

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Of course, you could not agree with me, and you probably don't, on what makes good hip hop, thus making my post irrelevant to your opinion of the rappers.

Captain Awesome · 12-04-2009, 09:26 AM

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Originally Posted by Axiomatic Wiki

Being part of the black equivalent to the KKK is supposed to be an honorable thing?

Talk about exaggeration. Do you know anything about the civil rights movement or anything that came after it? let me guess malcolm x and abu hamza are the same to you or something right?

Gangster rap should not have even existed. It created the worst form of hip hop for its time, and is what lead to the **** rap that is now plaguing the mainstream. The fact that TuPac is part of this, makes me hate him even more..

and biggie wasnt? at least tupac did rap about stuff that mattered. Changes, trapped, words of wisdom, brendas got a baby, keep ya head up, so many tears, dear mama, life goes on, none of biggies songs had any depth every song sounded the same. He's a cliche gangster rapper and nothing more.

Name one rapper who could not be considered a poet
Every single american mainstream rapper out right now. I meant tupac was literally a poet, he released books full of poetry. He wrote poetry before he became a rapper.

He was famous before he got the parts in the movies, it had nothing to do with any sort of acting skill. He was much more popular than biggie, and more established,. so of course he got acting jobs when Biggie did not. We are not discussing who was the better entertainer, but who was the better hip hop artist, a title that without a doubt, should go to the better rapper, being Biggie.
He was a reasonably good actor, have you even watched his movies? Not saying he was great but he was good. He earned his spots unlike todays rappers turned actors like dmx and 50cent

Why was Biggie a better rapper? Because he represented and expounded on what hip hop is, in my opinion, really about. And that is lyricism. His rhymes were so much better, so much more flavorful, and so much more complex than Tupac's. I can not fathom why people enjoy hip hop for other reasons besides lyrical rhyme skill, which Tupac completely lacked. There is nothing melodic, and nothing complexly rhythmical, in Tupac's music. It is not only not as good as Biggie, but a hell of a lot worse than many other rappers out there. Few things have had such a horrible effect on music as the west coast had on hip hop. Completely turning a beautiful art into bull crap single syllable rhymes. Biggie did not neglect the fact that good rap needed good rhymes. He is not nearly the greatest lyricist to ever exist, but he is, at least, a lyricist, something that only a fool would consider Tupac to be.
Biggie was a better lyricist than tupac yes, but that doesn't make him a good lyricist. Tupac did use multiple syllable rhyming, assonance rhyming, alliteration, metaphors ect even if it wasn't anywhere near biggies level he still used them and saying he didn't is just foolish. Also tupac was far more rhythmical than biggie imo, his music flows much better (in most cases).

What tupacs music had is depth, it had content that mattered. Yes he made cliche gangster music but he also made deep music, music that had meaning. I prefer Tupac as an artist because what he said mattered. Because he tried to help the world because he went to charity events and gave away his money because he reached people and let them know what was going on. Tupac was raps little own malcolm x. Biggie fits in with the usual mould of 50cent, lil wayne, jay z whatever... yes he was lyricial to a certain extent but even as a lyricist although he might have been better than pac he was still very basic. He isn't big pun, he isn't big L and he definitley isn't big daddy kane. He's biggie, overrated and cliche.

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Of course, you could not agree with me, and you probably don't, on what makes good hip hop, thus making my post irrelevant to your opinion of the rappers.

That depends. i agree about lyricism and these no-talented bastards in the mainstream today. But for me, tupacs content/topics overshadow biggies lyricism. If you were comparing big pun and tupac i would say big pun is the better rapper because he was lyricial on a grand scale. But the difference in lyrical ability between tupac and biggie just isn't big enough for biggie to be the better rapper on that merit alone. If i made a list of the top 100 lyricists of all time biggie wouldn't make the cut (neither would pac). You appear to be overrating his lyricism

my reply is in bold

btw we seem to agree that gangster rap is destroying our culture and needs to be ended or need to evolve in some way.

Also i would just like to say although i prefer tupac, both rappers are extremely overrated.

Axiomatic Wiki · 12-05-2009, 06:27 AM

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Talk about exaggeration. Do you know anything about the civil rights movement or anything that came after it? let me guess malcolm x and abu hamza are the same to you or something right?

The Civil Rights movement was long before Tupac's time. In the last 30 years the most significant thing the Black Panther movement has accomplished is giving birth to the Crips and bloods, leading to the most notorious street gang war to ever grip the US.

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and biggie wasnt? at least tupac did rap about stuff that mattered. Changes, trapped, words of wisdom, brendas got a baby, keep ya head up, so many tears, dear mama, life goes on, none of biggies songs had any depth every song sounded the same. He's a cliche gangster rapper and nothing more.

Lol yeah you are right about biggie being part of it as well, I wasn't really thinking about what my argument was when I made that part of the post, just kinda went off on a rant asdadaddasd

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Every single american mainstream rapper out right now. I meant tupac was literally a poet, he released books full of poetry. He wrote poetry before he became a rapper.

I have not read any of Tupac's poetry, so I can not really comment on it, but Kanye West recently published a book full of poems and other crap, and no offense to West fans, but the fact that he wrote poetry alone, is not a marvelous thing.

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He was a reasonably good actor, have you even watched his movies? Not saying he was great but he was good. He earned his spots unlike todays rappers turned actors like dmx and 50cent

I would without a doubt say that we was more deserving of Hollywood spot lite, than 50 Cent or DMLOLX, but I am kinda an elitist when it comes to my taste in actors.

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What tupacs music had is depth, it had content that mattered. Yes he made cliche gangster music but he also made deep music, music that had meaning. I prefer Tupac as an artist because what he said mattered. Because he tried to help the world because he went to charity events and gave away his money because he reached people and let them know what was going on. Tupac was raps little own malcolm x. Biggie fits in with the usual mould of 50cent, lil wayne, jay z whatever... yes he was lyricial to a certain extent but even as a lyricist although he might have been better than pac he was still very basic. He isn't big pun, he isn't big L and he definitley isn't big daddy kane. He's biggie, overrated and cliche.

Cant really argue with that!

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But the difference in lyrical ability between tupac and biggie just isn't big enough for biggie to be the better rapper on that merit alone. If i made a list of the top 100 lyricists of all time biggie wouldn't make the cut (neither would pac). You appear to be overrating his lyricism

Aye, I agree with you on Biggie not being THAT great of a lyricist, but to me, I cant really enjoy rap at all unless it has a certain amount of word play/lyricism in it. Biggie in this regard, was at the very least competent, enough so that I could enjoy listening to him casually.

Looking at this objectively, I would say that for what they were, Tupac was much better. He was not trying to be a lyricist, where as Biggie was. They are two entirely different kinds of rappers, and are hardly comparable.

With that in mind, I am convinced of your side of this discussion, I concede, and tip my hat to you.

Surell · 12-06-2009, 01:59 AM

Ice Cube hated white people way more than Pac and he was just your John Q. Everyman of Compton.

You both sound like crackers to me. Gangster Rap shouldn't exist? Why the hell are we having this discussion in a Tupac/Biggie thread. Gangsta Rap is just as legit as Nu Jazz or Radiohead or any other form of good music/Hip Hop. So is the West Coast. Without the West Coast, we wouldn't have Ice Cube or Pac's good ole rappin, or... De La Soul? Nah that's different. Without Gangsta we wouldn't have Wu or the solos, Biggie, Lil Wayne in all his greatness (lil ole me), Nas (also a rapper with relevance with the lyricism of a gawd), Thom- oops that sliipped.

Point is you're raggin on this whole sect of Hip Hop for little to no reason. Gangsta isn't why Hip Hop is bad now. Bad Hip Hop is why Hip Hop is bad now. Dancin isn't Gangsta. Gangstas lean with it, rock with it.

Captain Awesome · 12-06-2009, 04:24 AM

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Originally Posted by Surell

Ice Cube hated white people way more than Pac and he was just your John Q. Everyman of Compton.

You both sound like crackers to me. Gangster Rap shouldn't exist? Why the hell are we having this discussion in a Tupac/Biggie thread. Gangsta Rap is just as legit as Nu Jazz or Radiohead or any other form of good music/Hip Hop. So is the West Coast. Without the West Coast, we wouldn't have Ice Cube or Pac's good ole rappin, or... De La Soul? Nah that's different. Without Gangsta we wouldn't have Wu or the solos, Biggie, Lil Wayne in all his greatness (lil ole me), Nas (also a rapper with relevance with the lyricism of a gawd), Thom- oops that sliipped.

Point is you're raggin on this whole sect of Hip Hop for little to no reason. Gangsta isn't why Hip Hop is bad now. Bad Hip Hop is why Hip Hop is bad now. Dancin isn't Gangsta. Gangstas lean with it, rock with it.

we sound like crackers because we can see the damage gangster rap is doing to our culture? are Zion I crackers?

What was it tupac said. Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished. What happened to that?

"Bad Hip Hop is why Hip Hop is bad now."

and the vast majority of the bad hip hop (in the mainstream) just happens to be gangster rap. Thus why it's being singled out.

P.S Lil Wayne is a terrible rapper. Great Lyricist? LMAO..sure...whatever. Being more lyrical than the other mainstream rappers doesn't make you a great lyricist. I've squatted out sh!t that's more lyrical than the american mainstream.

No ones saying it shouldn't exist, just that in it's current state it is destroying rap. It needs to evolve, and quick.

"its not hip-hop, its something more sad, sick and seedy,
what's popping that coochie got to do with graffiti?
And your R & B dance-steps what about finger-popping?
b-boy electric shocking, windmills, body rocking,
so body-body rock, body-body rock, I'll take ya back,
break your back, realise b-boys aren't faking that
funk that you've forgotten hoe, how could you have gotten so
far gone, that you could never stop and go,
back to the roots, nineteen seventy nine,
birthplace of the scratch, birthplace of the rhyme,
you'll feel it in your spine like your first taste of wine,
we'll make it back; it'll just take some time"

Surell · 12-06-2009, 11:58 AM

Gangsta Rap is destroying our culture? that sounds real cracker to me. That's some real Tipper Gore talk.

Yeah but it's well known anything mainstream is gonna be bad. Just because the mainstream gangster is bad doesn't mean it's all bad. I still don't know when dancin or ice cream paint jobs was ever the true gangsta shit. Nor women music, cuz this is what's prevalent in the mainstream as far as i can tell. Trust me, i watch MTV, i am the whackest cracker you willever meet.

Captain Awesome · 12-06-2009, 01:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Surell

Gangsta Rap is destroying our culture? that sounds real cracker to me. That's some real Tipper Gore talk.

Yeah but it's well known anything mainstream is gonna be bad. Just because the mainstream gangster is bad doesn't mean it's all bad. I still don't know when dancin or ice cream paint jobs was ever the true gangsta shit. Nor women music, cuz this is what's prevalent in the mainstream as far as i can tell. Trust me, i watch MTV, i am the whackest cracker you willever meet.

I can think of literally two "gangster" rappers who are talented as lyricists (both from the independent/underground circuit).

Surell · 12-07-2009, 05:52 PM

Well maybe you're just picky and I don't take my rap serious enough. I have a feeling that's the problem we'll have here.

overdoser · 12-13-2009, 02:34 PM

make it fair guys. use the same amount of 2Pac albums to match the number of BIG albums. It's not cool when people compare just all of 2Pac's hits to Notorious' little catalogue. Even it out and then tell me why the albums are better

~LK~ · 12-17-2009, 07:25 AM

I like Tupac more.

I thought he was the better rapper overall. I can understand how many people praise Tupac as the greatest ever, but I don't understand how people say the same about Biggie. Tupac had more great songs on one CD than Biggie had combined. Pac is also the more versatile of the two.

View Poll Results: Who do you like better?
2Pac	141	61.30%
Biggie	89	38.70%
Voters: 230. You may not vote on this poll

12-13-2009, 02:34 PM	#239 (permalink)
overdoser God Of Thunder Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 102	make it fair guys. use the same amount of 2Pac albums to match the number of BIG albums. It's not cool when people compare just all of 2Pac's hits to Notorious' little catalogue. Even it out and then tell me why the albums are better __________________ 3XL ent. for life

12-17-2009, 07:25 AM	#240 (permalink)
~LK~ Groupie Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 32	I like Tupac more. I thought he was the better rapper overall. I can understand how many people praise Tupac as the greatest ever, but I don't understand how people say the same about Biggie. Tupac had more great songs on one CD than Biggie had combined. Pac is also the more versatile of the two. __________________ [IMG][/IMG]