First Punk Band?

Neapolitan · 01-20-2017, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Johnny Ramone says that CB, and the way that Page played it, was a major influence on the basic foundations of the Ramone's sound, i.e., PUNK.

MB members chime in on how JR's comments, back when The Ramones started to explode on the scene and influence EVERYONE, mean nothing.

OK, got it. This place blows my mind sometimes.

Communication Breakdown is NOT proto-Punk. I am not one to define past genres with future ones. That basically boils down to a Historian's Fallacy, so that's not the best approach. Punk has it time and place, the thoughts and ideas of "Punk" bands are different from those bands in the 60s. The music is similar in some respects but when it comes to Communication Breakdown it's more likely that Jimmy Page wanted to have a modern Rockabilly sound (modern for it's time) and blending in the Psychedelic and Acid Rock elements he would been expose to at that time. (I reiterate "Punk" or "proto-Punk" was no where in the picture.)

When Communication Breakdown is brought up I immediately think of Nervous Breakdown by Eddie Cochran. Communication Breakdown not only has a similar title and theme to Eddie Cochran's Nervous Breakdown, the phrasing is similar too. So if you want to make a connection from Communication Breakdown to Punk why just stop at Communication Breakdown as the song that spurn Punk? Communication Breakdown has its place, no doubt, but it's not the big band of Punk music. It's import though just for the fact the Johnny Ramone cited it as an influence, or sound or style he aspired to achieve. But you can go back even further to point to where Led Zeppelin had their own muse when they come up with Communication Breakdown. i.e. Eddie Cochran. And that is not moving back the goal post either. It just acknowledges one band is influence by another that was influence by another etc. etc. When you drop the "single man theory" insisting that single person or band is the progenitor of Punk e.g. Jimmy Page is because of Communication Breakdown, and understand all the other contributing factor, I think you can appreciate things for what they are more. There isn't that need to connect the dots. It's just the evolution Rock n Roll & music in general. And at any point in Rock's history you can draw enjoyment from it. Why connect the dots when you can draw?

I think the defining element in Johnny Ramone's style was he decide to approach the guitar like a bass, use Root/5th/8th chords and play all down strokes.

Eddie Cochran - Nervous Breakdown

Led Zeppelin - Communication Breakdown

**Frownland** · 01-20-2017, 05:44 PM

First rock band - Joe "Washington" Brown and Austin Coleman
First jazz band - Beethoven and the Retracted Eardrums
First country band - idunno

Ol’ Qwerty Bastard · 01-20-2017, 05:45 PM

first avant-ska band?

Neapolitan · 01-20-2017, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

yeah Nea but in the 60's you had garage rock bands that were already playing rockabilly influenced music it wasn't all hippies that's the surface narrative

It was more than just Rockabilly. Garage Rock is kinda broad term that weren't as big as British Invasion bands. Instrument Rock, Prat Rock, Surf and Blues were also influential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

you could take it a step further and even say punk bands were garage rock bands who gained a smudge of popularity in the cities along with carrying urban culture

I've seen you theory before and I all have to say to that is 'nope, nope, nope, and nope.'

The Batlord · 01-20-2017, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Geoff

Opinion: Who put out the first punk track, the Monks or the Seeds?

If we're talking about what we think of as modern punk then the only Monks track I can think of as being at all punk is "Oh, How to Do Now". And that only kind of.

The Batlord · 01-20-2017, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Would you say that, maybe, punk is also a broad term

I mean you're not gonna tell me with a straight face that there wasn't surf rock influence in Ramones for instance

And garage rock was used for American bands too

The Rolling Stones cover of "Route 66" for first punk song?

EPOCH6 · 01-20-2017, 06:36 PM

We're just going to have another 6 pages of "is it punk?" if we can't agree on at least a decent criteria for what makes a song pure punk.

How's this:

- Distortion
- High tempo, maybe ~160 BPM and up
- Disregard for traditional song structure elements (12-bars, boogies, and such)
- Disregard for professionalism (in production, presentation, content)

And how about we add:

- Must be pre-1976

Does anybody disagree that there's probably something that can be called "pure punk" prior to 1976?

The Batlord · 01-20-2017, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPOCH6

We're just going to have another 6 pages of "is it punk?" if we can't agree on at least a decent criteria for what makes a song pure punk.

How's this:

- Distortion
- High tempo, maybe ~160 BPM and up
- Disregard for traditional song structure elements (12-bars, boogies, and such)
- Disregard for professionalism (in production, presentation, content)

And how about we add:

- Must be pre-1976

Does anybody disagree that there's probably something that can be called "pure punk" prior to 1976?

Let's just be totally fascist and add "based on early pop song structures".

EPOCH6 · 01-20-2017, 06:46 PM

Anybody think this isn't punk?

The only thing that has me doubting is that it's pretty slow, but it is almost the exact same tempo as Anarchy in the UK, so I suppose we can ditch the BPM criteria.

If T.V. Eye is punk then we gotta go pre-1970.

The Batlord · 01-20-2017, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPOCH6

Anybody think this isn't punk?

The only thing that has me doubting is that it's pretty slow, but it is almost the exact same tempo as Anarchy in the UK, so I suppose we can ditch the BPM criteria.

If T.V. Eye is punk then we gotta go pre-1970.

If not "TV Eye" then "Loose". And if all else fails then "Your Pretty Face Is Going to Hell" was infinitely more punk than anything on any early punk album.

01-20-2017, 05:44 PM	#42 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	First rock band - Joe "Washington" Brown and Austin Coleman First jazz band - Beethoven and the Retracted Eardrums First country band - idunno __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x