Is Progressive Punk really an oxymoron?
 

I mean, we got Husker Du's Zen Arcade, NoMeansNo with Wrong, Paintbox - Trance, Trip, Traveling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arIhxy_LEtc), all the louder up beat Fugazi songs, Die Kreuzen - October File, aren't those kinda progressive for Punk? Yet, Punk Rock was like anti progressive rock, it took things back to basics. So if Progressive Rock fundamentally goes against punk, why do the aforementioned albums work, and could we call them progressive (relatively, for punk speaking)?

With some of these albums, it never really crossed my mind. But I'd love to find some really good progressive punk.

It seems at this point pretty much all genres and sub genres have been mixed and matched to a degree. "Progressive country" might be an oxymoron, especially if you're using "progressive" in the political or ideological sense, lol.

The supposed antagonism between punk and prog is an easy narrative that music journalists like to push, but it isn't that simple. Van Der Graaf Generator and some of Peter Hammill's solo stuff were quite proto-punkish. In fact his 1975 album Nadir's Big Chance was the first instance of british music being called punk rock.
Can, who were also quite progressive, although certainly not prog, were another big influence. Johnny Rotten actually was in the talks of becoming their new singer at some point.

Wow, I'm not sure how well that'd work out but it sounds interesting. Was this pre-PIL?

I'm not sure. It's kinda hard to google and there is no source in the wikipedia article mentioning it. But I remember reading it in a book about Can as well.
Since Jah Wobble is mentioned as being upset that it didn't come to be, I'll assume it was during the PIL days.

This thread needs more Cardiacs.
They are pretty much the first band I think of when progressive punk is mentioned.

Duality and contradiction, when done right, have great potency artistically. A band that seems to be several things at once while just being themselves has an honest shot at greatness. Unless you're pioneering something new, anything less will leave you ending up pigeonholed.

Progressive Punk, aye... Well.... I've always thought that Punk would be considered the opposite of Prog within the great universe of Rock.

I DO, however, say that there is a Progressive Hardcore: some good sh*t like Mathcore and Noisecore. But Punk? Ol' fashion Punk Rock? No... If anything that'd probably be considered a noisier, less melodic New Wave or maybe Garage Punk... Yeah that actually sounds about right.

Art Punk too....

Shyte, nevermind I'd say there is actually a progressive Punk.......

This goes back to that's rediculous wtf man :o

No its not. There will now always be a huge difference between the people who are involved in the punk scene....the people who go to shows just to support traveling bands...the people who help book shows and promote on the streets....the people who write zines and help their local scene. And the people who find the music online and think that the music is what it's all about...the music is obviously a huge part of it but there is so much more to it.

Street promotion and printed zines aren't necessary anymore. I used to be all into that but it's hard for me to understand carrying on with that now since the way we communicate has changed so much.

That makes me sad

Things change. Things end. I still love the music. I still love the philosophy.

Punk Rock is a music genre. Punk Rock has a sound. Punk rock spawned a lot of other music genres, such as Hardcore Punk. These genres including hardcore punk have a sound. Sure, a ton of **** happens around it, it means a lot to some people, and a bunch of different sometimes seperated scenes emerge. But at the end of the day it's music.

Yeah, why exactly would you need a fanzine when you can just start a blog? And ever since Myspace, self-promotion has been easier than ever. Only point to hanging on to the old school DIY practices sounds like elitism and not liking change.

I think it's more an aesthetic thing. I like finding and reading zines even though it really isn't necessary anymore. Punk culture as a whole has changed drastically since the 80's, but it can still be fun to find bands from paper sources and it definitely feels cool to be part of a little music scene in that sense.

It kinda reminds me of how right before we broke up, Neil was trying to make us record in analog. I have a digital recorder, but we both felt like the music would come out sounding more authentic without the digitized lo-fi aesthetic, instead being recorded on a boombox. We had no reason to, but the appeal of doing it wasn't really in an elitist mindset.

right....and you obviously have never been a part of an underground music scene....you have no idea what it feels like when this shit becomes a real part of you...the only part of your fucking miserable life that fucking matters....and it's the only thing that keeps you alive....

so keep making your ignorant videos and living in your little pretend internet forum world where you can try to make yourself look like some kind of fucking expert while coming off like a complete idiot....and i'll continue to contribute and be a part of what music is and does to peoples lives

I have a favourite show, thing had a huge impact on me personally. It means much more to me than just a tv show. But it's still just a tv show. My youtube channel means a lot to me. But it's still a youtube channel. I'm not pretending ****. What something means to people is different from what at it's basic core it is. And Punk started as a music genre, I got into it for that reason and I don't have to necessarily get into an underground scene to like it. Sure, music genres grow into subcultures and scenes and **** which is a wonderful thing, but at the end of the day it's music.

All I'm saying is, I never ****ing claimed to have been part of a music scene, and I never claimed to be a punk. I just really like a music genre and seeing all it's different sounds, and thought it would be fun to explain the sounds I know about. I'm certainly no expert, but it's all I know about in music so I may as well share. Those video's are from a listeners perspective, for other listeners. Hell, I even stated in my other video "I've never even been to a punk show", though now that's not true anymore. **** off.

Bob you can do your thing but you don't have to go bonkers just because someone else is doing theirs.

I thought that elitism was one of the cornerstones of punk?

I don't know about that. When I go to shows, there's always a guy handing out paper to promote a show. And I've gone to a few shows just because of that. I think sometimes the old fashioned way works just as well.

But nobody says that because they actually think the rapper IS punk in any real way, it's just a casual way to say they have some sort of rebellious attitude. And it's usually a pretty shallow and vapid comparison anyway, since the vast majority of people think punk is all power chords and shouting about the government.

Which is why your point is irrelevant.

Yes, but defining a genre is largely dependent upon what the majority thinks.

You guys put your faith in the majority over those actually involved in the scene? The public is an idiot, I wouldn't trust them with anything.

I don't think I've heard the Ramones on the radio. Commercials and baseball games, yeah.

I've heard them quite a few times on the radio and I don't even listen to the radio.

There's a million punk rock bands that sound the same, to say it has no sound baffles me.

"You know, I've seen the same bands so many dozens of times,
but with dozens of different names
across dozens of different state lines.
And I won't always admit it, but I think
that the world's better off with the world better in it.
And so if we're picking sides,
I guess that I am for every ****ty three-chord high school punk band.
Oh yes I am, oh yes I am." - Pat the Bunny

Alternative, post punk, post rock, experimental music, and free improvisation have millions of bands that sound the same, but they are quite meaningless genres as well as far as sound goes.

You give me the impression you're one of those dudes who thinks only 80's punk rock bands count as punk.
But hey, at the very least the "trash" is often inspired by those bands, I guess.

I thought punk rock was punk, I've been living a lie

According to elephenor, we've all been living a lie. Every last one of us.

Oh I know, plenty of now considered "post-punk" bands used to also just be seen as punk rock bands and were in the same scenes.


And also, yes we've all been living a lie. The only punk band is actually Death Grips.

Merged to comply with punk forum rules.

#notpunk

There's a song in that somewhere.

It's called all of New Yard hardcore, and it's not all it's cracked up to be.

pretty sure most post-hardcore (nomeansno, slint, husker du etc.) would count as "prog-punk"