Is Green Day punk or nah?

Oriphiel · 11-19-2017, 01:03 PM

Bottle by bottle.

Maajo · 11-19-2017, 07:50 PM

I think they're more like post-blackened-pop-death-angstcore, definitely not punk though.

The_Creature · 11-20-2017, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

"the confines of real punk" are just you don't sign to a major label post Spiral Scratch and you don't produce your albums with a board of executives trying to turn a profit

because once you've done that you're just making a rock/pop album

So were the Clash punk? I'm pretty sure Buzzcocks beat them to releasing anything.

Also, does it matter that much who produced it? If they drastically changed their sound so a board of executives would like it that would be selling out, sure, but if some executives bet, rightly, that a band will sell millions, can we hold that against the band?

The_Creature · 11-21-2017, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

they signed to CBS before Spiral Scratch it goes down in history as just the contract you shouldn't sign

it's the reason we get Give em enough Rope which isn't particularly acclaimed by Clash fans, it was the one recorded to make $$$

I thought their good albums were released on a major label too? I agree that money as a motive can ruin the creative process. I just don't really see the harm in a label recognising a band has the potential to sell lots of records if they are also hands off when it comes to writing the album.

Shouldn't it be that anyone CAN put out a DIY records, not that everyone is obligated to? I record with a budget of barely £100 a song. If a label gave me thousands of pounds and left me to my own devices, I wouldn't suddenly sound like One Direction.

The_Creature · 11-21-2017, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

you think they're gonna give you thousands of dollars to record the type of album you would have recorded on a 100 dollar budget

very briefly with The Pistols and Clash you had a period where major labels would allow that sort of thing but then they tightened the ropes and the result is both bands bitterly resented their labels and would release songs about it

I don't think anyone's going to give me any money.

But my overall point is I'm not interested in whether a band is on a major label. Labels are only interested in money but I'm not sure why they would bother looking for punk bands to turn into pop bands when they can just find pop bands. So I have no reason to think a label would make a band automatically worse or better.

I think it boils down to an entirely subjective opinion. I quite like their early stuff, and it was a kind of gateway drug for me when I was younger, whereas I presume it sounds like cookie cutter pop to you. It sounds different to us, so we put different labels on it.

**Frownland** · 11-21-2017, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Creature

I don't think anyone's going to give me any money.

But my overall point is I'm not interested in whether a band is on a major label. Labels are only interested in money but I'm not sure why they would bother looking for punk bands to turn into pop bands when they can just find pop bands.

Because pop bands have a different type of market than poppified punk bands.

Quote:

So I have no reason to think a label would make a band automatically worse or better.

Here's a great reason: Labels will generally take creative control and push their bands towards a profitable sound. Even when it's not a firm rule, it applies to Green Day as evidenced by the drastic shift away from punk when they did get signed.

The_Creature · 11-23-2017, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Because pop bands have a different type of market than poppified punk bands.

Exactly, a market exists for pop-punk so why would they need to change a band's sound? It seems more likely the band already plays the kind of sound they are looking for. So it boils down to whether you like pop-punk in the first place or have an ethical issue with major labels. I don't think it has anything to do with changing the music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Here's a great reason: Labels will generally take creative control and push their bands towards a profitable sound. Even when it's not a firm rule, it applies to Green Day as evidenced by the drastic shift away from punk when they did get signed.

I just don't hear it. I hear the difference after a few albums but a lot of bands change their sound over time. Dookie sounds like Kerplunk with better production values. It's louder and there's less noise. I guess that's a change in tone but it's pretty minor imo. Welcome to Paradise is on both, it doesn't sound out of place on either.

Also, this discussion has focused on the harm labels can do to a band and its early following. I think that's one way to look at it but there's also the issue of how it effects the scene generally. I think a better case can be made that major labels created a generation of pop-punk divorced from the punk scene. They got famous on the back of a sound influenced by punk, but no one in punk was acknowledged as an influence. I don't think Green Day fall under this category. They were deeply rooted in the punk scene but, through chance, they were in the right place at the right time to become hugely successful from it.

Frenchip · 11-24-2017, 08:26 AM

Personally, I'd consider them punk.

s5mato · 12-06-2017, 02:14 AM

Nah

JiggleMonster · 12-15-2017, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

Listening to Dookie. Yeah.

The only Green Day album that is tolerable.

11-19-2017, 01:03 PM	#391 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	Bottle by bottle. __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------

11-19-2017, 07:50 PM	#392 (permalink)
Maajo Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Colorado Posts: 513	I think they're more like post-blackened-pop-death-angstcore, definitely not punk though.

11-24-2017, 08:26 AM	#398 (permalink)
Frenchip Groupie Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 22	Personally, I'd consider them punk.

12-06-2017, 02:14 AM	#399 (permalink)
s5mato Groupie Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 2	Nah