Is Green Day punk or nah?

JGuy Grungeman · 06-23-2016, 02:09 PM

I've written an article on grunge before. Basically, grunge is a parent child of alternative rock that borrows elements from Seattle's local hardcore punk scene. Blending punk and meal elements, grunge typically tends to have an angsty sound revolving around teenage emotion and disappointment of the world, notably the mainstream media. Musical traits include a large usage of cymbals, lazy vocal delivery, deep raspy/sludgy guitars focused on riffing, and deep bass. Grunge is a pretty broad genre. Although it is omore often fused with alternative, punk, and metal genres, it can also be fused with power pop (Eve's Plum), Psychedelic (Truly), and it has even been combined with shoegaze in the underground community, creating "Grungegaze."

Blank. · 06-23-2016, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

But you realize almost everything in rock following punk is an offshoot of Punk

Most metal acts aren't.

Blank. · 06-23-2016, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

I've written an article on grunge before. Basically, grunge is a parent child of alternative rock that borrows elements from Seattle's local hardcore punk scene. Blending punk and meal elements, grunge typically tends to have an angsty sound revolving around teenage emotion and disappointment of the world, notably the mainstream media. Musical traits include a large usage of cymbals, lazy vocal delivery, deep raspy/sludgy guitars focused on riffing, and deep bass. Grunge is a pretty broad genre. Although it is omore often fused with alternative, punk, and metal genres, it can also be fused with power pop (Eve's Plum), Psychedelic (Truly), and it has even been combined with shoegaze in the underground community, creating "Grungegaze."

Can I read the article. I'm curious to see what you have to say on it.

Blank. · 06-23-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I just think there's a difference between having some punk influences and being an actual Punk band and it has very little to do with combat boots and power chords

There is a difference. A huge difference. But to not call Green Days early work punk is revisionism.

JGuy Grungeman · 06-23-2016, 02:38 PM

Here's the article. This is an old one. I wrote it last year, and I'm gonna edit a little bit of it. It's on a private list on RYM. The 3rd section is entirely new.

What Is Grunge?

I. Sound

Grunge is the child of a popular genre known as alternative rock. As an answer to heavy metal, this Seattle-born kid of alternative rock incorporated the fuzzy sound of Seattle's local hardcore punk scene while staying within both fast and slow tempos, and combining it with the heaviness of heavy metal, as influenced in part by sludge band The Melvins. However, grunge stayed within its alternative rock roots, having been influenced by early alt. bands like Dinosaur Jr, Pixies, and Sonic Youth. As far as the sound and the definition of grunge goes, these are some of the major aspects that most grunge bands tend to share.

1. Fuzzy, distorted guitars - Many grunge band sand albums keep what heavy metal and alternative rock albums have: fuzzy and distorted guitars than not only focus on raspiness and sludginess, but are all about riffing. A trait shared with punk and metal.

2. Deep base - A component of hardocre/post-hardcore, many grunge songs carry a deep base to keep a somewhat dark mood.

3. Punk influence - As grunge is often combined with punk and its many substyles, grunge itself take elements from punk. Like punk, grunge has a lack of sophistication, and is about a lack of emotional control.

4. Lazy vocal delivery - Grunge is also known for it lazy style of vocals. This lazy vocal sound was not apparent in all grunge albums, since many grunge albums have been combined with genres from all around the rock world, such as punk, garage rock, garage rock revival, heavy metal, sludge metal, riot grrrl, post-hardcore, noise rock, and even shoegaze and power pop. Grunge may not have any sub-styles (unless one counts grungegaze), but it is easily resonated with other genres.

5. Soft and heavy usage of cymbals - when standing on itself, many grunge songs carry a soft usage of symbols to contradict the dark atmosphere, thus giving more life to the chaotic atmosphere of grunge. Heavier grunge tunes call for more powerful cymbal playing. Either way, grunge uses alot of cymbals.

But what really sets this genre apart from any other genre is the one indescribable aspect that no other genre can copy: the angst. Angst is a feeling of dread or anxiety, both of which reside heavily in grunge. Grunge was a screwed-up rebellion against the the common ideals of mainstream culture, including fashioon, emotional control, politics, social fads, etc., residing to the music of grunge to break out there anger and let their teen spirit out. Grunge was about teenage angst that was built upon a simple combination of anger, sadness, confusion, and disappointment in the word (which is why the lazy vocal delivery helped emphasize that), whereas punk was for anyone angry and rebellious. And a grunge album is not a grunge album without the angst. Grunge is angsty, no matter what emotion is in the song.

II. Culture

Like many genres, grunge has a fanhood and a fad. Grunge's culture was defined by location and fashion, an ironic trait seeing as how grunge was emotionally distraught at mainstream fads. This is a trait shared with both alternative and metal. Grunge was about the teenage angst that resides in all of us, waiting to be unleashed like we wore The Mask.

Location - Where did grunge evolve? Seattle. Seattle was very isolated from common music scenes in the early 80's, and adopted their own hardcvore scene. Because of grunge's connections with Seattle labels like Sub Pop and Glitterhouse and C/Z Records, grunge became known as "Seattle Sound." Sadly, because of this, some grunge fans refuse to accept some grunge bands as grunge if they're not Seattle-based. An example is how some refuse to accept L7 as grunge.

Fashion - The majority of grunge fashion from the acts was mostly based upon unclean facial hair and refusal to keep it clean. This was only a small representation of rebellion of the laws of fashion in the world, the laws that keep men and women in tuxedos and Rolexes while grunge was about the will inside all of us to cool ourselves by venting our anger through music, whether the lyrics themselves were angry or not. The fanhood was into cheap clothing, usually plaid flannal.

III. Grunge in the past and present.

Grunge evolved during the mid 80's, influenced mostly by U-Men. Grunge's sound was adopted by Green River, who broke up quickly and later formed Mudhoney, Mother Love Bone, and Pearl Jam. Other notable bands include Soundgarden (who took a lot of Zeppelin influence), Nirvana (who's frontman Kurt Con\bain was in a band with a member of the Melvins), Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, Silverchair, and many riot grrrl acts such as L7 and Babes in Toyland. 1991 was the year grunge entered mainstream success with Nevermind, Badmotorfinger, Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge, Ten, Temple of the Dog, and more. After the death of Kurt Cobain in 1994 and the release on Soundgarden's last album before breaking up, the grunge scene was considered ended.

Today, grunge remains an underground genre with few bands making it into the mainstream because they have been around since the 90's or becausde they are new and talented. Bands like these include Local H, Zico Chain, and Superheaven (fpormerly known as Daylight). Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, and Soundgarden continue to make grunge albums today while Pearl Jam and many grunge acts have moved onto alternative rock and post-grunge.

There have been rumors of a grunge revival in recent years, possibly with a rise in grugnegaze. Grunge itslef has been slowly gaining more albums every year, although the media's involvement is limited. However, grunge itself hasd not taken many further steps into new fame as it is still overshowed by its parent alternative and its brother subgenre post-grunge. It may be a few years before grunge rises again.

Blank. · 06-23-2016, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

When you say early work are you talking Dookie because I just have to disagree that it's a punk album and not an Alternative album

And few of the songs on that are punk. Like Jaded. But I'm really talking about there stuff before Dookie.

The Batlord · 06-23-2016, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

Here's the article. This is an old one. I wrote it last year, and I'm gonna edit a little bit of it. It's on a private list on RYM. The 3rd section is entirely new.

What Is Grunge?

I. Sound

Grunge is the child of a popular genre known as alternative rock. As an answer to heavy metal, this Seattle-born kid of alternative rock incorporated the fuzzy sound of Seattle's local hardcore punk scene while staying within both fast and slow tempos, and combining it with the heaviness of heavy metal, as influenced in part by sludge band The Melvins. However, grunge stayed within its alternative rock roots, having been influenced by early alt. bands like Dinosaur Jr, Pixies, and Sonic Youth. As far as the sound and the definition of grunge goes, these are some of the major aspects that most grunge bands tend to share.

1. Fuzzy, distorted guitars - Many grunge band sand albums keep what heavy metal and alternative rock albums have: fuzzy and distorted guitars than not only focus on raspiness and sludginess, but are all about riffing. A trait shared with punk and metal.

2. Deep base - A component of hardocre/post-hardcore, many grunge songs carry a deep base to keep a somewhat dark mood.

3. Punk influence - As grunge is often combined with punk and its many substyles, grunge itself take elements from punk. Like punk, grunge has a lack of sophistication, and is about a lack of emotional control.

4. Lazy vocal delivery - Grunge is also known for it lazy style of vocals. This lazy vocal sound was not apparent in all grunge albums, since many grunge albums have been combined with genres from all around the rock world, such as punk, garage rock, garage rock revival, heavy metal, sludge metal, riot grrrl, post-hardcore, noise rock, and even shoegaze and power pop. Grunge may not have any sub-styles (unless one counts grungegaze), but it is easily resonated with other genres.

5. Soft and heavy usage of cymbals - when standing on itself, many grunge songs carry a soft usage of symbols to contradict the dark atmosphere, thus giving more life to the chaotic atmosphere of grunge. Heavier grunge tunes call for more powerful cymbal playing. Either way, grunge uses alot of cymbals.

But what really sets this genre apart from any other genre is the one indescribable aspect that no other genre can copy: the angst. Angst is a feeling of dread or anxiety, both of which reside heavily in grunge. Grunge was a screwed-up rebellion against the the common ideals of mainstream culture, including fashioon, emotional control, politics, social fads, etc., residing to the music of grunge to break out there anger and let their teen spirit out. Grunge was about teenage angst that was built upon a simple combination of anger, sadness, confusion, and disappointment in the word (which is why the lazy vocal delivery helped emphasize that), whereas punk was for anyone angry and rebellious. And a grunge album is not a grunge album without the angst. Grunge is angsty, no matter what emotion is in the song.

II. Culture

Like many genres, grunge has a fanhood and a fad. Grunge's culture was defined by location and fashion, an ironic trait seeing as how grunge was emotionally distraught at mainstream fads. This is a trait shared with both alternative and metal. Grunge was about the teenage angst that resides in all of us, waiting to be unleashed like we wore The Mask.

Location - Where did grunge evolve? Seattle. Seattle was very isolated from common music scenes in the early 80's, and adopted their own hardcvore scene. Because of grunge's connections with Seattle labels like Sub Pop and Glitterhouse and C/Z Records, grunge became known as "Seattle Sound." Sadly, because of this, some grunge fans refuse to accept some grunge bands as grunge if they're not Seattle-based. An example is how some refuse to accept L7 as grunge.

Fashion - The majority of grunge fashion from the acts was mostly based upon unclean facial hair and refusal to keep it clean. This was only a small representation of rebellion of the laws of fashion in the world, the laws that keep men and women in tuxedos and Rolexes while grunge was about the will inside all of us to cool ourselves by venting our anger through music, whether the lyrics themselves were angry or not. The fanhood was into cheap clothing, usually plaid flannal.

III. Grunge in the past and present.

Grunge evolved during the mid 80's, influenced mostly by U-Men. Grunge's sound was adopted by Green River, who broke up quickly and later formed Mudhoney, Mother Love Bone, and Pearl Jam. Other notable bands include Soundgarden (who took a lot of Zeppelin influence), Nirvana (who's frontman Kurt Con\bain was in a band with a member of the Melvins), Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, Silverchair, and many riot grrrl acts such as L7 and Babes in Toyland. 1991 was the year grunge entered mainstream success with Nevermind, Badmotorfinger, Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge, Ten, Temple of the Dog, and more. After the death of Kurt Cobain in 1994 and the release on Soundgarden's last album before breaking up, the grunge scene was considered ended.

Today, grunge remains an underground genre with few bands making it into the mainstream because they have been around since the 90's or becausde they are new and talented. Bands like these include Local H, Zico Chain, and Superheaven (fpormerly known as Daylight). Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, and Soundgarden continue to make grunge albums today while Pearl Jam and many grunge acts have moved onto alternative rock and post-grunge.

There have been rumors of a grunge revival in recent years, possibly with a rise in grugnegaze. Grunge itslef has been slowly gaining more albums every year, although the media's involvement is limited. However, grunge itself hasd not taken many further steps into new fame as it is still overshowed by its parent alternative and its brother subgenre post-grunge. It may be a few years before grunge rises again.

JGuy Grungeman · 06-23-2016, 02:42 PM

The article was for 1blankmind.

Blank. · 06-23-2016, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

Here's the article. This is an old one. I wrote it last year, and I'm gonna edit a little bit of it. It's on a private list on RYM. The 3rd section is entirely new.

Thanks! I'll give this a read when I get too later today.

JGuy Grungeman · 06-23-2016, 02:44 PM

I hope it's a pretty good definition. Thankfully, grunge is less vague than alternative, so it's easier to determine. Basically, not every grunge album has to follow ALL of the traits. I'd say as long as it carries most of the traitsd and has the angst, it's grunge. The angst is the only absolutely required trait. Without it, it's not grunge.

06-23-2016, 02:09 PM	#61 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	I've written an article on grunge before. Basically, grunge is a parent child of alternative rock that borrows elements from Seattle's local hardcore punk scene. Blending punk and meal elements, grunge typically tends to have an angsty sound revolving around teenage emotion and disappointment of the world, notably the mainstream media. Musical traits include a large usage of cymbals, lazy vocal delivery, deep raspy/sludgy guitars focused on riffing, and deep bass. Grunge is a pretty broad genre. Although it is omore often fused with alternative, punk, and metal genres, it can also be fused with power pop (Eve's Plum), Psychedelic (Truly), and it has even been combined with shoegaze in the underground community, creating "Grungegaze." __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

06-23-2016, 02:38 PM	#65 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Here's the article. This is an old one. I wrote it last year, and I'm gonna edit a little bit of it. It's on a private list on RYM. The 3rd section is entirely new. What Is Grunge? I. Sound Grunge is the child of a popular genre known as alternative rock. As an answer to heavy metal, this Seattle-born kid of alternative rock incorporated the fuzzy sound of Seattle's local hardcore punk scene while staying within both fast and slow tempos, and combining it with the heaviness of heavy metal, as influenced in part by sludge band The Melvins. However, grunge stayed within its alternative rock roots, having been influenced by early alt. bands like Dinosaur Jr, Pixies, and Sonic Youth. As far as the sound and the definition of grunge goes, these are some of the major aspects that most grunge bands tend to share. 1. Fuzzy, distorted guitars - Many grunge band sand albums keep what heavy metal and alternative rock albums have: fuzzy and distorted guitars than not only focus on raspiness and sludginess, but are all about riffing. A trait shared with punk and metal. 2. Deep base - A component of hardocre/post-hardcore, many grunge songs carry a deep base to keep a somewhat dark mood. 3. Punk influence - As grunge is often combined with punk and its many substyles, grunge itself take elements from punk. Like punk, grunge has a lack of sophistication, and is about a lack of emotional control. 4. Lazy vocal delivery - Grunge is also known for it lazy style of vocals. This lazy vocal sound was not apparent in all grunge albums, since many grunge albums have been combined with genres from all around the rock world, such as punk, garage rock, garage rock revival, heavy metal, sludge metal, riot grrrl, post-hardcore, noise rock, and even shoegaze and power pop. Grunge may not have any sub-styles (unless one counts grungegaze), but it is easily resonated with other genres. 5. Soft and heavy usage of cymbals - when standing on itself, many grunge songs carry a soft usage of symbols to contradict the dark atmosphere, thus giving more life to the chaotic atmosphere of grunge. Heavier grunge tunes call for more powerful cymbal playing. Either way, grunge uses alot of cymbals. But what really sets this genre apart from any other genre is the one indescribable aspect that no other genre can copy: the angst. Angst is a feeling of dread or anxiety, both of which reside heavily in grunge. Grunge was a screwed-up rebellion against the the common ideals of mainstream culture, including fashioon, emotional control, politics, social fads, etc., residing to the music of grunge to break out there anger and let their teen spirit out. Grunge was about teenage angst that was built upon a simple combination of anger, sadness, confusion, and disappointment in the word (which is why the lazy vocal delivery helped emphasize that), whereas punk was for anyone angry and rebellious. And a grunge album is not a grunge album without the angst. Grunge is angsty, no matter what emotion is in the song. II. Culture Like many genres, grunge has a fanhood and a fad. Grunge's culture was defined by location and fashion, an ironic trait seeing as how grunge was emotionally distraught at mainstream fads. This is a trait shared with both alternative and metal. Grunge was about the teenage angst that resides in all of us, waiting to be unleashed like we wore The Mask. Location - Where did grunge evolve? Seattle. Seattle was very isolated from common music scenes in the early 80's, and adopted their own hardcvore scene. Because of grunge's connections with Seattle labels like Sub Pop and Glitterhouse and C/Z Records, grunge became known as "Seattle Sound." Sadly, because of this, some grunge fans refuse to accept some grunge bands as grunge if they're not Seattle-based. An example is how some refuse to accept L7 as grunge. Fashion - The majority of grunge fashion from the acts was mostly based upon unclean facial hair and refusal to keep it clean. This was only a small representation of rebellion of the laws of fashion in the world, the laws that keep men and women in tuxedos and Rolexes while grunge was about the will inside all of us to cool ourselves by venting our anger through music, whether the lyrics themselves were angry or not. The fanhood was into cheap clothing, usually plaid flannal. III. Grunge in the past and present. Grunge evolved during the mid 80's, influenced mostly by U-Men. Grunge's sound was adopted by Green River, who broke up quickly and later formed Mudhoney, Mother Love Bone, and Pearl Jam. Other notable bands include Soundgarden (who took a lot of Zeppelin influence), Nirvana (who's frontman Kurt Con\bain was in a band with a member of the Melvins), Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, Silverchair, and many riot grrrl acts such as L7 and Babes in Toyland. 1991 was the year grunge entered mainstream success with Nevermind, Badmotorfinger, Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge, Ten, Temple of the Dog, and more. After the death of Kurt Cobain in 1994 and the release on Soundgarden's last album before breaking up, the grunge scene was considered ended. Today, grunge remains an underground genre with few bands making it into the mainstream because they have been around since the 90's or becausde they are new and talented. Bands like these include Local H, Zico Chain, and Superheaven (fpormerly known as Daylight). Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, and Soundgarden continue to make grunge albums today while Pearl Jam and many grunge acts have moved onto alternative rock and post-grunge. There have been rumors of a grunge revival in recent years, possibly with a rise in grugnegaze. Grunge itslef has been slowly gaining more albums every year, although the media's involvement is limited. However, grunge itself hasd not taken many further steps into new fame as it is still overshowed by its parent alternative and its brother subgenre post-grunge. It may be a few years before grunge rises again. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

06-23-2016, 02:42 PM	#68 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	The article was for 1blankmind. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

06-23-2016, 02:44 PM	#70 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	I hope it's a pretty good definition. Thankfully, grunge is less vague than alternative, so it's easier to determine. Basically, not every grunge album has to follow ALL of the traits. I'd say as long as it carries most of the traitsd and has the angst, it's grunge. The angst is the only absolutely required trait. Without it, it's not grunge. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.