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-   -   Is Green Day punk or nah? (https://www.musicbanter.com/punk/86632-green-day-punk-nah.html)

Blank. 06-23-2016 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk (Post 1713119)
Church

Lol

Key 06-23-2016 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1713107)
I'm going to assume frownland is making a point. And I agree with him completely. You can't not call it something just cause you don't like it.

So I can't say Donald Trump is a terrible candidate because I don't like him?

Frownland 06-23-2016 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki (Post 1713151)
So I can't say Donald Trump is a terrible candidate because I don't like him?

It's more like saying that Trump isn't a candidate because you don't like him.

Key 06-23-2016 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1713154)
It's more like saying that Trump isn't a candidate because you don't like him.

I get it now. Whether or not I like Green Day doesn't allow for me to say they aren't something that they are.

grindy 06-23-2016 12:03 PM

Green Day are boring and poppy.
Punk is boring and poppy.
Everything fits.

Blank. 06-23-2016 12:06 PM

So you don't like sex pistols?

grindy 06-23-2016 12:09 PM

I do not.

Frownland 06-23-2016 12:10 PM

You're boring and poppy.

grindy 06-23-2016 12:11 PM

I am.

JGuy Grungeman 06-23-2016 12:45 PM

I think they started as punk, but their sound later got more modern and less representative of the sound. They were a "pop" band, so they had an impressive punk sound for a short time.

Frownland 06-23-2016 12:46 PM

Pop punk.

Blank. 06-23-2016 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1713201)
Pop punk.

They're sound isn't really poppy enough for that. Especially when you compare them to Bowling For Soup, Panic! At The disco, and Bowling For Soup.

JGuy Grungeman 06-23-2016 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1713201)
Pop punk.

Exactly. I'm glad to be a fan of pop punk, actually. It means I can find enjoyment out of somethinfg that's usually considered bad, like brostep and crunk. Proud fan of all three!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1713205)
They're sound isn't really poppy enough for that. Especially when you compare them to Bowling For Soup, Panic! At The disco, and Bowling For Soup.

It's poppy enough. Maybe not poppier than a lot of pop punk, but enough.

extrachill 06-23-2016 12:52 PM

I'd say Dookie is kind of a punk album

JGuy Grungeman 06-23-2016 12:55 PM

Nirvana: Occasionally. They're punkier in their bootlegs and live shows. I've heard about 9 or 10 bootlegs.

Weezer, nah. They're more power pop with a dash of emo.

Pearl Jam's Live at Easy Street EP was fairly punky.


"Nirvana started out as punk with Bleach but then moved into alternative territory"... I can't tell you how much that sounds like a sentence I would write. Is this a quote from me?

But comparing the punkiness of Pearl Jam to Green Day is like comparing the poppiness of Adele to Justin Beiber. The two have very different sounds. What you said about Nirvana can also apply to Green Day, except it took Green Day longer. Not claiming to be anything near a punk expert, but after hearing 100 punk albums I can tell punk when I hear it. And I suppose with Green Day, it's somewhat vague since they have a history in pop and alternative that may or may not tone down their punk sound depending on the listener.

Frownland 06-23-2016 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1713209)
I mean we might as well go ahead and consider Weezer and Nirvana punk. What about Pearl Jam they also have songs where they play power chords

Are we doing that

"Nirvana started out as punk with Bleach but then moved into alternative territory"

Or we could call them what they are Arena Rock bands with some punk influence

Ur rite we call green gay punk an we loose all are punk cred thanks 4 showing us the light

JGuy Grungeman 06-23-2016 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1713219)
green gay

I didn't know they were tree-hugging homosexuals.

Key 06-23-2016 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman (Post 1713222)
I didn't know they were tree-hugging homosexuals.

Well of course. Don't you know that American Idiot is based on the ignorance of Americans toward the importance of going green?

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman (Post 1713216)
Nirvana: Occasionally. They're punkier in their bootlegs and live shows. I've heard about 9 or 10 bootlegs.

Weezer, nah. They're more power pop with a dash of emo.

Pearl Jam's Live at Easy Street EP was fairly punky.


"Nirvana started out as punk with Bleach but then moved into alternative territory"... I can't tell you how much that sounds like a sentence I would write. Is this a quote from me?

But comparing the punkiness of Pearl Jam to Green Day is like comparing the poppiness of Adele to Justin Beiber. The two have very different sounds. What you said about Nirvana can also apply to Green Day, except it took Green Day longer. Not claiming to be anything near a punk expert, but after hearing 100 punk albums I can tell punk when I hear it. And I suppose with Green Day, it's somewhat vague since they have a history in pop and alternative that may or may not tone down their punk sound depending on the listener.

I agree with everything said here.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1713214)
In the same way "Nevermind" is kind of a punk album

Kind of, but not really

Well, grunge is an offshoot of punk.
From wikipedia:
"Grunge typically fuses elements of punk rock and heavy metal."

JGuy Grungeman 06-23-2016 01:09 PM

I've written an article on grunge before. Basically, grunge is a parent child of alternative rock that borrows elements from Seattle's local hardcore punk scene. Blending punk and meal elements, grunge typically tends to have an angsty sound revolving around teenage emotion and disappointment of the world, notably the mainstream media. Musical traits include a large usage of cymbals, lazy vocal delivery, deep raspy/sludgy guitars focused on riffing, and deep bass. Grunge is a pretty broad genre. Although it is omore often fused with alternative, punk, and metal genres, it can also be fused with power pop (Eve's Plum), Psychedelic (Truly), and it has even been combined with shoegaze in the underground community, creating "Grungegaze."

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1713233)
But you realize almost everything in rock following punk is an offshoot of Punk

Most metal acts aren't.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman (Post 1713236)
I've written an article on grunge before. Basically, grunge is a parent child of alternative rock that borrows elements from Seattle's local hardcore punk scene. Blending punk and meal elements, grunge typically tends to have an angsty sound revolving around teenage emotion and disappointment of the world, notably the mainstream media. Musical traits include a large usage of cymbals, lazy vocal delivery, deep raspy/sludgy guitars focused on riffing, and deep bass. Grunge is a pretty broad genre. Although it is omore often fused with alternative, punk, and metal genres, it can also be fused with power pop (Eve's Plum), Psychedelic (Truly), and it has even been combined with shoegaze in the underground community, creating "Grungegaze."

Can I read the article. I'm curious to see what you have to say on it.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1713247)
I just think there's a difference between having some punk influences and being an actual Punk band and it has very little to do with combat boots and power chords

There is a difference. A huge difference. But to not call Green Days early work punk is revisionism.

JGuy Grungeman 06-23-2016 01:38 PM

Here's the article. This is an old one. I wrote it last year, and I'm gonna edit a little bit of it. It's on a private list on RYM. The 3rd section is entirely new.

What Is Grunge?

I. Sound

Grunge is the child of a popular genre known as alternative rock. As an answer to heavy metal, this Seattle-born kid of alternative rock incorporated the fuzzy sound of Seattle's local hardcore punk scene while staying within both fast and slow tempos, and combining it with the heaviness of heavy metal, as influenced in part by sludge band The Melvins. However, grunge stayed within its alternative rock roots, having been influenced by early alt. bands like Dinosaur Jr, Pixies, and Sonic Youth. As far as the sound and the definition of grunge goes, these are some of the major aspects that most grunge bands tend to share.

1. Fuzzy, distorted guitars - Many grunge band sand albums keep what heavy metal and alternative rock albums have: fuzzy and distorted guitars than not only focus on raspiness and sludginess, but are all about riffing. A trait shared with punk and metal.

2. Deep base - A component of hardocre/post-hardcore, many grunge songs carry a deep base to keep a somewhat dark mood.

3. Punk influence - As grunge is often combined with punk and its many substyles, grunge itself take elements from punk. Like punk, grunge has a lack of sophistication, and is about a lack of emotional control.

4. Lazy vocal delivery - Grunge is also known for it lazy style of vocals. This lazy vocal sound was not apparent in all grunge albums, since many grunge albums have been combined with genres from all around the rock world, such as punk, garage rock, garage rock revival, heavy metal, sludge metal, riot grrrl, post-hardcore, noise rock, and even shoegaze and power pop. Grunge may not have any sub-styles (unless one counts grungegaze), but it is easily resonated with other genres.

5. Soft and heavy usage of cymbals - when standing on itself, many grunge songs carry a soft usage of symbols to contradict the dark atmosphere, thus giving more life to the chaotic atmosphere of grunge. Heavier grunge tunes call for more powerful cymbal playing. Either way, grunge uses alot of cymbals.

But what really sets this genre apart from any other genre is the one indescribable aspect that no other genre can copy: the angst. Angst is a feeling of dread or anxiety, both of which reside heavily in grunge. Grunge was a screwed-up rebellion against the the common ideals of mainstream culture, including fashioon, emotional control, politics, social fads, etc., residing to the music of grunge to break out there anger and let their teen spirit out. Grunge was about teenage angst that was built upon a simple combination of anger, sadness, confusion, and disappointment in the word (which is why the lazy vocal delivery helped emphasize that), whereas punk was for anyone angry and rebellious. And a grunge album is not a grunge album without the angst. Grunge is angsty, no matter what emotion is in the song.

II. Culture

Like many genres, grunge has a fanhood and a fad. Grunge's culture was defined by location and fashion, an ironic trait seeing as how grunge was emotionally distraught at mainstream fads. This is a trait shared with both alternative and metal. Grunge was about the teenage angst that resides in all of us, waiting to be unleashed like we wore The Mask.

Location - Where did grunge evolve? Seattle. Seattle was very isolated from common music scenes in the early 80's, and adopted their own hardcvore scene. Because of grunge's connections with Seattle labels like Sub Pop and Glitterhouse and C/Z Records, grunge became known as "Seattle Sound." Sadly, because of this, some grunge fans refuse to accept some grunge bands as grunge if they're not Seattle-based. An example is how some refuse to accept L7 as grunge.

Fashion - The majority of grunge fashion from the acts was mostly based upon unclean facial hair and refusal to keep it clean. This was only a small representation of rebellion of the laws of fashion in the world, the laws that keep men and women in tuxedos and Rolexes while grunge was about the will inside all of us to cool ourselves by venting our anger through music, whether the lyrics themselves were angry or not. The fanhood was into cheap clothing, usually plaid flannal.

III. Grunge in the past and present.

Grunge evolved during the mid 80's, influenced mostly by U-Men. Grunge's sound was adopted by Green River, who broke up quickly and later formed Mudhoney, Mother Love Bone, and Pearl Jam. Other notable bands include Soundgarden (who took a lot of Zeppelin influence), Nirvana (who's frontman Kurt Con\bain was in a band with a member of the Melvins), Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, Silverchair, and many riot grrrl acts such as L7 and Babes in Toyland. 1991 was the year grunge entered mainstream success with Nevermind, Badmotorfinger, Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge, Ten, Temple of the Dog, and more. After the death of Kurt Cobain in 1994 and the release on Soundgarden's last album before breaking up, the grunge scene was considered ended.

Today, grunge remains an underground genre with few bands making it into the mainstream because they have been around since the 90's or becausde they are new and talented. Bands like these include Local H, Zico Chain, and Superheaven (fpormerly known as Daylight). Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, and Soundgarden continue to make grunge albums today while Pearl Jam and many grunge acts have moved onto alternative rock and post-grunge.

There have been rumors of a grunge revival in recent years, possibly with a rise in grugnegaze. Grunge itslef has been slowly gaining more albums every year, although the media's involvement is limited. However, grunge itself hasd not taken many further steps into new fame as it is still overshowed by its parent alternative and its brother subgenre post-grunge. It may be a few years before grunge rises again.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1713266)
When you say early work are you talking Dookie because I just have to disagree that it's a punk album and not an Alternative album

And few of the songs on that are punk. Like Jaded. But I'm really talking about there stuff before Dookie.

The Batlord 06-23-2016 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman (Post 1713269)
Here's the article. This is an old one. I wrote it last year, and I'm gonna edit a little bit of it. It's on a private list on RYM. The 3rd section is entirely new.

What Is Grunge?

I. Sound

Grunge is the child of a popular genre known as alternative rock. As an answer to heavy metal, this Seattle-born kid of alternative rock incorporated the fuzzy sound of Seattle's local hardcore punk scene while staying within both fast and slow tempos, and combining it with the heaviness of heavy metal, as influenced in part by sludge band The Melvins. However, grunge stayed within its alternative rock roots, having been influenced by early alt. bands like Dinosaur Jr, Pixies, and Sonic Youth. As far as the sound and the definition of grunge goes, these are some of the major aspects that most grunge bands tend to share.

1. Fuzzy, distorted guitars - Many grunge band sand albums keep what heavy metal and alternative rock albums have: fuzzy and distorted guitars than not only focus on raspiness and sludginess, but are all about riffing. A trait shared with punk and metal.

2. Deep base - A component of hardocre/post-hardcore, many grunge songs carry a deep base to keep a somewhat dark mood.

3. Punk influence - As grunge is often combined with punk and its many substyles, grunge itself take elements from punk. Like punk, grunge has a lack of sophistication, and is about a lack of emotional control.

4. Lazy vocal delivery - Grunge is also known for it lazy style of vocals. This lazy vocal sound was not apparent in all grunge albums, since many grunge albums have been combined with genres from all around the rock world, such as punk, garage rock, garage rock revival, heavy metal, sludge metal, riot grrrl, post-hardcore, noise rock, and even shoegaze and power pop. Grunge may not have any sub-styles (unless one counts grungegaze), but it is easily resonated with other genres.

5. Soft and heavy usage of cymbals - when standing on itself, many grunge songs carry a soft usage of symbols to contradict the dark atmosphere, thus giving more life to the chaotic atmosphere of grunge. Heavier grunge tunes call for more powerful cymbal playing. Either way, grunge uses alot of cymbals.

But what really sets this genre apart from any other genre is the one indescribable aspect that no other genre can copy: the angst. Angst is a feeling of dread or anxiety, both of which reside heavily in grunge. Grunge was a screwed-up rebellion against the the common ideals of mainstream culture, including fashioon, emotional control, politics, social fads, etc., residing to the music of grunge to break out there anger and let their teen spirit out. Grunge was about teenage angst that was built upon a simple combination of anger, sadness, confusion, and disappointment in the word (which is why the lazy vocal delivery helped emphasize that), whereas punk was for anyone angry and rebellious. And a grunge album is not a grunge album without the angst. Grunge is angsty, no matter what emotion is in the song.

II. Culture

Like many genres, grunge has a fanhood and a fad. Grunge's culture was defined by location and fashion, an ironic trait seeing as how grunge was emotionally distraught at mainstream fads. This is a trait shared with both alternative and metal. Grunge was about the teenage angst that resides in all of us, waiting to be unleashed like we wore The Mask.

Location - Where did grunge evolve? Seattle. Seattle was very isolated from common music scenes in the early 80's, and adopted their own hardcvore scene. Because of grunge's connections with Seattle labels like Sub Pop and Glitterhouse and C/Z Records, grunge became known as "Seattle Sound." Sadly, because of this, some grunge fans refuse to accept some grunge bands as grunge if they're not Seattle-based. An example is how some refuse to accept L7 as grunge.

Fashion - The majority of grunge fashion from the acts was mostly based upon unclean facial hair and refusal to keep it clean. This was only a small representation of rebellion of the laws of fashion in the world, the laws that keep men and women in tuxedos and Rolexes while grunge was about the will inside all of us to cool ourselves by venting our anger through music, whether the lyrics themselves were angry or not. The fanhood was into cheap clothing, usually plaid flannal.

III. Grunge in the past and present.

Grunge evolved during the mid 80's, influenced mostly by U-Men. Grunge's sound was adopted by Green River, who broke up quickly and later formed Mudhoney, Mother Love Bone, and Pearl Jam. Other notable bands include Soundgarden (who took a lot of Zeppelin influence), Nirvana (who's frontman Kurt Con\bain was in a band with a member of the Melvins), Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, Silverchair, and many riot grrrl acts such as L7 and Babes in Toyland. 1991 was the year grunge entered mainstream success with Nevermind, Badmotorfinger, Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge, Ten, Temple of the Dog, and more. After the death of Kurt Cobain in 1994 and the release on Soundgarden's last album before breaking up, the grunge scene was considered ended.

Today, grunge remains an underground genre with few bands making it into the mainstream because they have been around since the 90's or becausde they are new and talented. Bands like these include Local H, Zico Chain, and Superheaven (fpormerly known as Daylight). Alice in Chains, Mudhoney, and Soundgarden continue to make grunge albums today while Pearl Jam and many grunge acts have moved onto alternative rock and post-grunge.

There have been rumors of a grunge revival in recent years, possibly with a rise in grugnegaze. Grunge itslef has been slowly gaining more albums every year, although the media's involvement is limited. However, grunge itself hasd not taken many further steps into new fame as it is still overshowed by its parent alternative and its brother subgenre post-grunge. It may be a few years before grunge rises again.

https://media.giphy.com/media/IYjiXRV622OBO/giphy.gif

JGuy Grungeman 06-23-2016 01:42 PM

The article was for 1blankmind.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman (Post 1713269)
Here's the article. This is an old one. I wrote it last year, and I'm gonna edit a little bit of it. It's on a private list on RYM. The 3rd section is entirely new.

Thanks! I'll give this a read when I get too later today.

JGuy Grungeman 06-23-2016 01:44 PM

I hope it's a pretty good definition. Thankfully, grunge is less vague than alternative, so it's easier to determine. Basically, not every grunge album has to follow ALL of the traits. I'd say as long as it carries most of the traitsd and has the angst, it's grunge. The angst is the only absolutely required trait. Without it, it's not grunge.

The Batlord 06-23-2016 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman (Post 1713279)
The article was for 1blankmind.

So it works out for everyone.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman (Post 1713282)
I hope it's a pretty good definition. Thankfully, grunge is less vague than alternative, so it's easier to determine. Basically, not every grunge album has to follow ALL of the traits. I'd say as long as it carries most of the traitsd and has the angst, it's grunge. The angst is the only absolutely required trait. Without it, it's not grunge.

Isn't the word angst kind of a loose term? I mean as long as it's depressing it kind of meets the qualifications.

The Batlord 06-23-2016 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1713290)
Isn't the word angst kind of a loose term? I mean as long as it's depressing it kind of meets the qualifications.

Oh god no.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1713286)
I think Mudhoney is the only grunge I still tolerate at this point in my life

Mudhoney is my least favorite grunge band without absolute hatred.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1713291)
Oh god no.

Oh yes!

JGuy Grungeman 06-23-2016 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1713290)
Isn't the word angst kind of a loose term? I mean as long as it's depressing it kind of meets the qualifications.

I explain grunge's specific kind of angst that defines the genre in the article. I think it's a fairly good definition. It goes on about how it takes anger, depression, and social disgust and fits them into an uncontrolled/whiny form of angst.

The Batlord 06-23-2016 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind (Post 1713292)
Mudhoney is my least favorite grunge band without absolute hatred.

I am conducting a test.



Blank. 06-23-2016 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman (Post 1713294)
I explain grunge's specific kind of angst that defines the genre in the article. I think it's a fairly good definition. It goes on about how it takes anger, depression, and social disgust and fits them into an uncontrolled/whiny form of angst.

Ok. I get it.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 1713296)
Their first album is all I know tbh and I like that it's named after the only pedal they use

sometimes I think I hate 90's music but then I remember Shoegaze was a thing

We can't be friends. You say 90's music is bad. But then call that abomination called shoegaze good in the same sentence. Kill yourself. You're everything that's wrong with America.

Blank. 06-23-2016 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1713295)
I am conducting a test.

I'm at work. Can't listen to music.


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