Why is "Post-Punk" even considered "Punk"?

OccultHawk · 07-07-2016, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

When you consider that alternative contains everything from the Replacements, to My Bloody Valentine, to Jesus and the Mary Chain, to Radiohead, I think it's still innovative, but I definitely think that its connection to punk stunted its artistic growth.

Without punk I think alternative would never have gained as much mainstream traction as it ever did, but it probably would have been more experimental.

I guess you might say that punk was the worst thing to ever happen to purely experimental rock.

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, you don't have much love for the purely experimental.

JGuy Grungeman · 07-07-2016, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind

Are they really art rock? Radiohead always felt like the band that Nirvana could've become. Nothing to spectacular. David Bowie... I could agree with that. Pink Floyd though was just one of the original prog bands. Not sure about them being art rock.

Then again, I'm still not a hundred percent sure on what art rock is.

OK Computer and AMSP are totally artsy.

JGuy Grungeman · 07-07-2016, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

And BTW, I'm ignoring anything about JGuy's post, cause I always do.

Let's count how many times he's replied to one of my posts.

Anyway, I'd say Pink Floyd are prog for these reasons:

1. Topics/messages that revolve around the mind, such as DSOTM with the concept of lunacy, or The Wall with the lead character building a mental wall around himself to completely isolate himself from society.

2. Songs that are seperated into parts, such as Genesis' "Domino," 2112, the "Twelve Step Suite" of Dream Theater (inspired by Rush's "Fear"), and Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall.

3. Long songs with long instrumentals. Take the whole King Crimson album and many Dream Theater albums. Pink Floyd does thislongetivity sometimes although not necessarily carrying long solos all of the time, most notably with "Time" and the tracks from "Animals." Heck, take "Shine On You Crazy Diamond."

4. Many prog albums are concept albums. Rush, Dream Theater, Pink Floyd, Avantasia, Queensryche, Genesis,and many other prog bands write them.

5. I've noticed a lot of prog bands like King Crimson, Genesis (70's), Dream Theater (for a metal band), Neal Morse, and others are a bit slow-paced.

This is something I wrote on another site a couple years ago. I wernt and dug it up.

**Frownland** · 07-07-2016, 06:31 PM

Bitches Brew is a prog album too right?

JGuy Grungeman · 07-07-2016, 06:34 PM

Well... is it rock? Because it sounds like avant-garde jazzto me,.

All I'm saying is, I can't say a band that follows very common prog practies isn't prog. Prog is about mentality. And although progressive music requires that, Pink Floyd's mentality is more based on the practice than the sound.

**Frownland** · 07-07-2016, 06:37 PM

And I'm saying that you can connect quite a few albums that are definitely not prog to prog rock classics, which is what happens to Pink Floyd. Long form psychedelic jams can be found outside of prog, like in psychedelic music.

Pink Floyd is not prog.

The Batlord · 07-07-2016, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, you don't have much love for the purely experimental.

As far as appreciation? No. As far as just liking the fact that it exists for the fun of it, then I totally love it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, you don't have much love for the purely experimental.

As far as appreciation? No. As far as just liking the fact that it exists for the fun of it, then I totally love it.

But that has little to do with alternative and art rock. I can still recognize the difference between ART art rock and alternative rock that's kind of arty, even if I'm not a truly artsy person.

JGuy Grungeman · 07-07-2016, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

And I'm saying that you can connect quite a few albums that are definitely not prog to prog rock classics, which is what happens to Pink Floyd. Long form psychedelic jams can be found outside of prog, like in psychedelic music.

Pink Floyd is not prog.

If there are a lot of sensible connections to make, I think connecting them to it is logical.

Pink Floyd is prog.

**Frownland** · 07-07-2016, 07:27 PM

You can't fix stupid. I bet you haven't even heard 10 prog albums.

TechnicLePanther · 07-07-2016, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Indie does truly suck ass though.

Indie folk is the ****.

Also, PF is prog, I'll take that battle any day.

1st point: Any band that uses conventional instrumentation to make an album 40 minutes long with five songs is a prog rock band. PF did this thrice.

2nd point: Anyone who's heard Wish You Were Here, Animals, Atom Heart Mother, Ummagumma (ugh), or Meddle should be able to ascertain that Pink Floyd is prog. Even if you consider most of their output to be unrelated to prog, you can still label them as prog based on these albums. Just as you could also label them as psychedelic, or art rock, or pop rock (barely).

07-07-2016, 06:31 PM	#184 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Bitches Brew is a prog album too right? __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

07-07-2016, 06:34 PM	#185 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Well... is it rock? Because it sounds like avant-garde jazzto me,. All I'm saying is, I can't say a band that follows very common prog practies isn't prog. Prog is about mentality. And although progressive music requires that, Pink Floyd's mentality is more based on the practice than the sound. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

07-07-2016, 06:37 PM	#186 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	And I'm saying that you can connect quite a few albums that are definitely not prog to prog rock classics, which is what happens to Pink Floyd. Long form psychedelic jams can be found outside of prog, like in psychedelic music. Pink Floyd is not prog. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

07-07-2016, 07:27 PM	#189 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	You can't fix stupid. I bet you haven't even heard 10 prog albums. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x