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Old 02-03-2023, 03:35 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Artifice > authenticity. Another vote for the Pistols

(also the dullest people I've ever met were all wearing Ramones tees around 2007 or whenever it was. even worse than the Joy Division tshirt epidemic after the Anton Corbijn film)
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:18 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Steely Dan fans are my natural enemies

Lydon is one of pop culture's all time greats imo. An uncannily sharp guy, the best dresser ever, great at music etc etc
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Old 02-03-2023, 08:05 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Yeah I...wait...what's wrong with Steely Dan?
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Old 02-03-2023, 09:33 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Steely Dan fans are my natural enemies

Lydon is one of pop culture's all time greats imo. An uncannily sharp guy, the best dresser ever, great at music etc etc
Couldn't honestly tell you if I've even heard a Steely Dan song.
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Old 02-04-2023, 03:41 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Johnny Rotten is out wearing Trump tshirts, doesnt that throw a wrench in your whole argument right there
I don't think Lydon is actually a conservative, just a try hard contrarian like he's always been.
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Old 02-04-2023, 03:43 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Steely Dan fans are my natural enemies
Ok then, we fight in the parking lot tomorrow, 4 PM sharp, you better be there bitch.
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Old 02-04-2023, 04:57 AM   #107 (permalink)
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I don't think Lydon is actually a conservative, just a try hard contrarian like he's always been.
Yes. I think a reason why some old punks (also Lydia Lunch and Exene Cervenka for instance) turn to right wing politics or conspiracy theories is that much of their fame and identity is based around being anti-establishment cultural innovators: when they were young they were at the forefront of that kind of stuff but when you're old, you generally lose touch a bit and don't easily understand everything that the kids who are now at the forefront are doing. The healthy attitude is to accept that and try to understand anyway, but if it has been such a big part of your identity it's probably a hard pill to swallow and they turn their contrarian spirit in the wrong direction, against these new innovations that frustrate them. It's painful to watch
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Old 02-04-2023, 06:10 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Exene strikes me as a true believer sadly, a lot of people get into conspiracy theory nonsense as they get older and if they have issues with mental illness or substance abuse that probably won't help, we've all seen this happen to our loved ones in the last 8 years. Your brain literally starts rotting after you turn 25 and if we don't keep our minds sharp it could happen to any of us.

I don't know anything about Lydia Lunch's political opinions but her being a TERF wouldn't surprise me in the least, every other edgy second wave feminist ended up being one.
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Old 02-04-2023, 09:39 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Ramones were streetwise irreverent apolitical neighborhood weirdos...in other words they were Punks

I don't think they personally had a political aim to their music, they gave some thought to their look and sound...there was a pure love of pop which I think absolutely had to have been a breath of fresh air in the prog saturated rock market

but the most enduring political message was how down to the ground and unprofessional their whole act was
This is pretty much the case with the Sex Pistols, though. What did their "activism" consist of besides trolling the monarchy and using naughty words on TV?

The idea that The Sex Pistols were some kind of political performance art is something McLaren's pushed after the fact to try and "get credit" for punk.

This is not a criticism of either band because I agree the whole idea of punk is just that you're supposed to be irreverent and unprofessional. The doctrinaire hardcore guys are tedious and lame. It's supposed to be about chaos, you start having a "message" and you're bringing in order.
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Old 02-04-2023, 02:58 PM   #110 (permalink)
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I think first wave punk is inherently left wing because of its celebration of individualism and its assault on meritocracy

don't care too much about the personal politics of this guy or that
Historians/fans of the British welfare state* don't see it this way. They'd say it was a bunch of spoiled, ungrateful brats, who could only pick up guitars thanks to a generous unemployment benefits system, throwing their toys out of a pram.


*which was clearly paternalistic and stifling imo
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