Lord Larehip

????? The first hardcore ever was Bad Brains and they were black.


Bad Brains - Big Takeover (Rock for light - track 01) - YouTube

Urban Hat€monger ?

I said the first BLACK MUSIC (I.E. ALL of their influences came from black music) punk band, not the first black punk band

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Lord Larehip

Public Enemy was punk in the same sense that Bill Clinton was our first black president. If you're going to be called punk then be punk--that means your music sounds like punk and your listeners are predominantly punks. Was that the case with Public Enemy? No. The title goes to Bad Brains.

Urban Hat€monger ?

You're missing the point. Nobody was saying they sound like a punk band.
The comparison was used to say hip hop was bringing to black music in the 80s what punk bought to rock music in the 70s.

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Lord Larehip

And I'm saying you're full of s-hit. Rap has no f-ucking idea what it's doing. Rap is the music industry's reality TV. It claimed to be "keepin' it real" but its goal was to make more money than anyone else. Does it decry the fact that it is a multi-billion dollar a year industry. Hell, no, it revels in it.

Punk was dada. Its purpose was to make anti-music. No slick production, no slick cover art, no $150 tickets in some big stadium, no $30 t-shirt, hell, just make your own. It wanted to destroy the concept of genres and hit records. It was all bulls-hit to make some label owner big money. With "music" gone and forgotten, something new could be built in its place--something of real value, something truly rewarding. Not just grabbing the money and running which is what turned rock into a phony bunch of overblown brain-cell killing malarkey that needed to be torn down in the first place.

Hip-hop? Hip-hop doesn't give a f-uck about anything BUT money. Hip-hop and punk are nothing alike. No common ground whatever. Punk failed in its objective partly because it despised becoming "generic." But that was its nature--to never be satisfied. The very thing it wanted to stave off is now upon us and it is too late to do anything about it. Punk today is just a rehash of territory long ago explored--the very thing real punk hated.

Mondo Bungle

That made my day.

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Violent & Funky

This is my favorite thread ever!

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http://www.last.fm/user/ohio0808

sometimes I don't thrill you
sometimes I think I'll kill you
just don't let me fuck up will you
'cause when I need a friend it's still you

Urban Hat€monger ?

Stick to talking about music from the 1920s or whenever. It's clear you're way out of your depth when talking about anything from the last 30 years.

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Lord Larehip

You mean you didn't know punk was dada?? You've heard of the band Cabaret Voltaire, right? You know what that is? It was a gallery where dada anti-art was first exhibited to the public in Zurich 1916. One of the founders, Marcel Janco, explained, “At the Cabaret Voltaire, we began by shocking common sense, public opinion, education, institutions, museums, good taste, in short, the whole prevailing order.” That's punk, man! The word "dada" is meaningless but is also Romanian for "yeah yeah" as in our "yeah whatever."

But the idea that dada is essentially meaningless or random is quite fitting for Dada itself as it rejected art with deeper meanings and rejected such concepts as a “masterpiece.” Dada art was deliberately superficial. What you saw was what you got. Whatever meaning you got from it was your interpretation alone. Another interpretation was just as valid. And if you got no meaning from it, that was just as valid as any meaning one found. Dada artists never tried to explain their pieces and often because they couldn’t, it was often randomly generated. While traditional art laughs at the child who paints a random image and, when asked it is, replies, “I won’t know until I’m done with it,” Dada embraced this attitude as the very core its philosophy and even adding, “And I probably still won’t know.”

People don't think very much about how important art is in political philosophy and discourse--not to mention war. There's a reason dada was embraced among the anarchists but despised by the Nazis. Max Ernst was even imprisoned by the Nazis for his art. The Nazi vision for Europe and the world was not political but aesthetic, artistic. They didn't view Jews so much as a political danger as they did vermin, an infestation, in need of liquidation for the good of all. They had no place in Hitler's perfectly ordered vision.

Look at Nazi art and buildings. Always neat, clean, orderly. Always perfect specimens of Aryan superiority. All the buildings Albert Speer designed for Hitler were grand, majestic, lots of marble and tall, sturdy columns with floors so clean and uncluttered they looked uninhabited. There was a place for everything and everything was in its place. And if you didn't fit in--Jew, Gypsy, non-white, retarded, homosexual, disabled, even old--the only place for you was a mass grave.





What did the Nazis use to gas inmates? Zyklon B, a prussic acid, used for what? As insecticide. Again, they were killing vermin. No political justification needed. There was simply no place for them in the Third Reich. They were not part of Hitler's aesthetics.

In 1937, the Nazis removed all dada art from Germany. Here, they list what they called entartete kunst or degenerate art and one can read "dada" and "Ernst." Another name listed is George Grosz, another big dadaist.



Grosz depicted his fellow Germans as cruel, unfeeling, unthinking automatons driven only by greed and lust:


Ernst depicted "The Angel of Hearth and Home" as it danced across the barren European landscape bearing a striking resemblance to a swastika:


Dada was mostly anti-war and anti-politics, largely atheistic and anarchistic. Likewise were the punkers. One need only listen to DRI or Discharge (before the horrible "Grave New World") for proof. And who became the punks' biggest enemy? The Nazi skins. Remarkable how history repeats itself.

While punk might be over, the dada spirit lives on. Wherever there are conservatives and liberals--both cowards and hypocrites full of hate and cut from the exact same cloth--there will be war. And war there is war, there will be dada to rebel against it.

“…a phenomenon bursting forth in the midst of the postwar economic and moral crisis, a savior, a monster, which would lay waste to everything in its path. [It was] a systematic work of destruction and demoralization...In the end it became nothing but an act of sacrilege.”

Ah but isn't that how it always goes?


Anti - What Do You Do - YouTube
Anti was founded by Gary Kail who also founded a punk-noise unit called Zurich 1916.


Naked City - Thrash Jazz Assassin - YouTube


Naked City - Kaoru - YouTube

Codeblind

Propagandhi - Haille Sellasse, Up Your Ass - YouTube

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http://www.last.fm/user/codeblind