Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372889)

Who is Thurston Moore?

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus (Post 1372869)

To LL, maybe this will help.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372889)

Maybe he is (never heard of him) but does that mean Cobain is by extension?

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372864)

It's not grunge I hate so much as the idiotic reaction to it. A-ssholes acted like they'd never heard music in their lives. They couldn't get enough of it and it put a lot of bands out of work that had been doing well.

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus (Post 1372901)

This proves that your knowledge of what happened here in Seattle in the late '80's/early '90's is an inch deep. He's very important in the Seattle rock scene from that era.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372904)

When did I claim to be an authority on the Seattle scene? I know nothing of Seattle.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372735)

It was a disgrace. F-uck grunge and f-uck Seattle. Ten times worse than Detroit.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372735)

It was a disgrace. F-uck grunge and f-uck Seattle. Ten times worse than Detroit.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372889)

Who is Thurston Moore? Cobain liked the Meat Puppets and that's fine--I liked them too. But he was no Curt Kirkwood.
Maybe he is (never heard of him) but does that mean Cobain is by extension?

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372864)

It's not grunge I hate so much as the idiotic reaction to it. A-ssholes acted like they'd never heard music in their lives. They couldn't get enough of it and it put a lot of bands out of work that had been doing well. Suddenly, places wouldn't hire you if you couldn't play grunge s-hit. The problem for me was that it wasn't very musical. Punk generally wasn't either but it wasn't trying to be. Punk was conceived as anti-music. Grunge was just plain un-musical. Kurt Cobain was a hack. Couldn't play guitar to save his life and people think he's this great, tortured genius. S-hit, his guitar-playing and singing tortured me. Yet he became a musical hero to a generation who couldn't know decent playing if they heard it because, if they listened to Nirvana, they couldn't have heard it because Cobain blew. I wasn't going to play that junk. That was the end of my band days because you had to play grunge to get a gig and I wasn't having it. Grunge killed more scenes than it could ever have created what it did create was musically untalented.

One of my buddies loves Cobain and learned guitar from listening to him. All he knows are power barre chords--nothing else. Like Cobain, he can't play a lead riff. Listen to Nirvana, there's no leads not because they were against them but because Cobain couldn't play. When they did start putting leads into the songs, it was another guitarist they hired in.

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1372848)

Fixed.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372864)

It's not grunge I hate so much as the idiotic reaction to it. A-ssholes acted like they'd never heard music in their lives. They couldn't get enough of it and it put a lot of bands out of work that had been doing well.

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1372963)

I mean how can somebody express a love for punk and not even be aware of who Thurston Moore is?

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus (Post 1372965)

Or claim to revile "grunge" and the Seattle scene and not even know who Tommy Niemeyer, Kim Thayil or Jerry Cantrell are.

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus (Post 1372965)

Or claim to revile "grunge" and the Seattle scene and not even know who Tommy Niemeyer, Kim Thayil or Jerry Cantrell are.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1372742)

Even if I accept this as true, there ain't room enough in this town for both of
'em so I pick punk.

Originally Posted by Neapolitan (Post 1372956)

That is about a twenty years difference between the two scenes. Twenty years is a long time, and there a lot that can happen in that time, and a lot did happen for better and worse. So you have no qualms about genres in between those two scences say for example Disco, Day-glo 80s Pop, or Glam Metal but for whatever reason Seattle and Detroit rubs you the wrong way?

Originally Posted by Surell (Post 1372979)

Well, the Ramones liked jangly pop music and sniffed glue, that may have had just as much influence as dadaism. I'm still pretty adamant in the position that dadaism is not the only reason people opposed war/government. It could have played a part, but I don't think it's the only answer, especially since punks were pretty anti-intellect (i.e., they sniffed glue).

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle (Post 1373046)

Had to play grunge if you wanted to get a seattle gig in the 90's? Queensryche, Kenny G, Nevermore, Burning Witch, Carissa's Wierd, Hovercraft, Land, The Mentors, Sanctuary, and dozens of other artists would beg to differ.

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle (Post 1373046)

Had to play grunge if you wanted to get a seattle gig in the 90's? Queensryche, Kenny G, Nevermore, Burning Witch, Carissa's Wierd, Hovercraft, Land, The Mentors, Sanctuary, and dozens of other artists would beg to differ.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1356860)

You mean you didn't know punk was dada?? You've heard of the band Cabaret Voltaire, right? You know what that is? It was a gallery where dada anti-art was first exhibited to the public in Zurich 1916. One of the founders, Marcel Janco, explained, “At the Cabaret Voltaire, we began by shocking common sense, public opinion, education, institutions, museums, good taste, in short, the whole prevailing order.” That's punk, man! The word "dada" is meaningless but is also Romanian for "yeah yeah" as in our "yeah whatever."

But the idea that dada is essentially meaningless or random is quite fitting for Dada itself as it rejected art with deeper meanings and rejected such concepts as a “masterpiece.” Dada art was deliberately superficial. What you saw was what you got. Whatever meaning you got from it was your interpretation alone. Another interpretation was just as valid. And if you got no meaning from it, that was just as valid as any meaning one found. Dada artists never tried to explain their pieces and often because they couldn’t, it was often randomly generated. While traditional art laughs at the child who paints a random image and, when asked it is, replies, “I won’t know until I’m done with it,” Dada embraced this attitude as the very core its philosophy and even adding, “And I probably still won’t know.”

People don't think very much about how important art is in political philosophy and discourse--not to mention war. There's a reason dada was embraced among the anarchists but despised by the Nazis. Max Ernst was even imprisoned by the Nazis for his art. The Nazi vision for Europe and the world was not political but aesthetic, artistic. They didn't view Jews so much as a political danger as they did vermin, an infestation, in need of liquidation for the good of all. They had no place in Hitler's perfectly ordered vision.

Look at Nazi art and buildings. Always neat, clean, orderly. Always perfect specimens of Aryan superiority. All the buildings Albert Speer designed for Hitler were grand, majestic, lots of marble and tall, sturdy columns with floors so clean and uncluttered they looked uninhabited. There was a place for everything and everything was in its place. And if you didn't fit in--Jew, Gypsy, non-white, retarded, homosexual, disabled, even old--the only place for you was a mass grave.

What did the Nazis use to gas inmates? Zyklon B, a prussic acid, used for what? As insecticide. Again, they were killing vermin. No political justification needed. There was simply no place for them in the Third Reich. They were not part of Hitler's aesthetics.

In 1937, the Nazis removed all dada art from Germany. Here, they list what they called entartete kunst or degenerate art and one can read "dada" and "Ernst." Another name listed is George Grosz, another big dadaist.
=

Grosz depicted his fellow Germans as cruel, unfeeling, unthinking automatons driven only by greed and lust:

Ernst depicted "The Angel of Hearth and Home" as it danced across the barren European landscape bearing a striking resemblance to a swastika:


Dada was mostly anti-war and anti-politics, largely atheistic and anarchistic. Likewise were the punkers. One need only listen to DRI or Discharge (before the horrible "Grave New World") for proof. And who became the punks' biggest enemy? The Nazi skins. Remarkable how history repeats itself.

While punk might be over, the dada spirit lives on. Wherever there are conservatives and liberals--both cowards and hypocrites full of hate and cut from the exact same cloth--there will be war. And war there is war, there will be dada to rebel against it.

“…a phenomenon bursting forth in the midst of the postwar economic and moral crisis, a savior, a monster, which would lay waste to everything in its path. [It was] a systematic work of destruction and demoralization...In the end it became nothing but an act of sacrilege.”

Ah but isn't that how it always goes?


Anti was founded by Gary Kail who also founded a punk-noise unit called Zurich 1916.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1363404)

We're talking about Muslims. You can't expect logical thinking from these people. Who will they gas next? That's exactly the problem--who the f-uck knows??

You can't attribute logical motives into the heads of people who are encouraged if not mandated to think irrationally at least I sure wouldn't recommend it.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1371333)

That's other countries. America is a scam. That's all it is. Nothing is implemented unless some fatcat at the top is making big money off it. Single payer works in the military because people in the military are driven by duty not money. Nobody who wants to make money joins the military. In the civilian world, money is all there is. If it doesn't make somebody some money, it's not going to happen. A civilian single payer system in America is just a scam. Underneath, it's the same old s-hit going on--the rich getting richer.

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1373131)

Anyone else a fan of Lord Larehips rather rambling & contradictory statements on war?


&



(^^^ in that thread Lord Larehip strikes an exceptionally hawkish, pro-war stance)

&


....srsly guise

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1373049)

How do you know what the Ramones were influenced by? Especially if they were from New York, which is home to about every art movement since Paris lost the title of world's art capital. And yes, that's where many of the dadaists went when the Nazis took over. That's where abstract expressionism was born--from dadaists--and it gave birth to political art movements and organizations such as Up Against the Wall Motherf-uckers who were from New York and they were some truly radical bastards--not the nicest people in the world either (picture Hell's Angels as a bunch of street-artists)--but their influence in the counter-culture is inestimable. Now, you're in a punk band playing all the cool clubs in New York, you're going to meet up with some wild, crazy people. I sure did playing in and around Detroit but then this area is the home of the SDS and similar political groups that, again, had a major impact on the counter-culture. I wouldn't assume the Ramones didn't meet people like that, I could almost guarantee they did. I'm sure if I did, they did. Who knows what all influenced them?

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle (Post 1373056)

Queensryche - Continuing to make albums and tour the world.
Kenny G - 25th highest selling artist in America
Nevermore - After releasing a slew of nice and successful 2000's albums, went on hiatus in 2011, but only after touring heavily with great success.
Burning Witch - I guess you got me here, they were only around for 3 years, but members went on to form Sunn O))) and Khanate, 2 highly revered bands in the metal community.
Carissa's Wierd - After influencing countless bands and sparking more interest in a musical movement, broke up in 2003. Members formed Band of Horses.
Hovercraft - Cited as one of the most abrasive, non-commercial sounding bands ever to receive major label distribution for its albums. The group was largely well respected and well received by critics and developed a cult following.
Land - Probably the only band I mentioned that hasn't had a huge, longstanding effect on music. Oh well, they made some great stuff right at the same time grunge was going strong, and many people enjoyed it.
The Mentors - do you not know the Mentors?
Sanctuary - Jeff Loomis was in the band, so they spawned the aforementioned Nevermore, highly influential and well regarded in the thrash scene.

Only an idiot would tell you going whateverthe****x platinum makes success.

Originally Posted by Surell (Post 1373174)

It is true that they may have met and it is possible that they could have got along, but a full on embrace from a bunch of kids whose only interests were sniffing glue, ****ing, and three chord progressions they could hardly play who were also extremely skeptical of people looking to tell them how things should be, so how much they consciously allowed influence to permeate. Also, I would think abstract expressionism would go back to cubism from around the first world war, but maybe that's nitpicking.

Also, the pop isn't too hard to hear in the Ramones' songwriting, but a list of influences are listed on their Wikipedia.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1373257)

I don't most of the bands you're talking about and no one else does either. And when told we have to play grunge to get hired, it would not have been well-received to offer to play Queensryche instead--whom I never listen to on top of it.

As for the Mentors, I not only saw them, I KNEW El Duce who is dead now in case you didn't know. He's been dead for some time.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1373258)

You act like you personally knew this guys. Did you?

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1373258)

You act like you personally knew this guys. Did you?

Originally Posted by Surell (Post 1373307)

And you implied your own experience was akin to theirs. Is it?

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1373351)

I don't know!! But you're talk as though you do know and I am asking you--DO YOU KNOW? Quit trying to change the subject and just answer the question: Do you know any of the guys in the Ramones?



Yeah and? Doesn't mean they can't be influenced by anything. I was friends with the wife of Frank Discussion of Feederz and he was a total Situationist at that time. I don't know about now. Liking what you like and bowing down to authority are not exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by Sansa Stark (Post 1373354)

The Ramones are ****ing terrible

Originally Posted by WhateverDude (Post 1373343)

The thing about being in one of the biggest musical projects in recent history is that you don't have to know the members personally to know who they were and what they were about.

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip (Post 1373366)

But I asked him point-blank if he knew these guys and i can't get a straight answer. H enever said anything about documentaries or anything else. If that's where he learned what he clams to know about these guys then he would have said so. He's making an assumption and stating it as though it is fact. And he knows he overstepped his boundaries and got called on it

Originally Posted by WhateverDude (Post 1373343)

The thing about being in one of the biggest musical projects in recent history is that you don't have to know the members personally to know who they were and what they were about. Documentaries, interviews, etc. all confirm what he's saying. The Ramones were a bunch of tough, working class kids from New York who didn't want to be a cover band (the only other option at the time to being a rock star virtuoso), couldn't play like Led Zeppelin, and who wanted to make something different. That ethos was shared by many other bands at the time and is what lives on today. People still feel that way and still have managed to make new and interesting Punk music that sounds different nearly 40 years after Punk's alleged 'Death'. Phil Spector is a HUGE influence on The Ramones, ESPECIALLY on Joey. After they kicked out Tommy as both a drummer and producer, they hired Phil to produce End of the Century. He produced on most of Joey's solo records, too. Do you not know who Phil Spector is? Let me enlighten you:

He invented the "Wall of Sound" approach to production, basically defining 60s pop as well as laying ground work for Shoegaze, Noise Rock, etc.
He's worked with everyone from Tina Turner to The Crystals to The Beatles to The Ramones.
He has a crazy ass hair-do.
He is in jail for shooting a woman in the mouth. Maybe it should've been you.

Every time someone counters your ridiculous hypothesis with FACTS disproving your claims you either ignore them or respond by denying those fact's relevance. You can't make a claim and then filter out any information that inconveniences your claim's agenda- that's called propaganda you ****ing fascist and there's a reason only brain-washed zombies believe it.

I leave you with this:

Originally Posted by WhateverDude (Post 1373355)

yo fvck dis ****.

Originally Posted by Sansa Stark (Post 1373500)

What, they do? They stayed together for ass many years and yet never released anything remotely different? The Clash at least switched their sound up every album. People who deify the Ramones annoy the **** out of me, they were not even remotely as good as people perpetuate that they were.