No punk today

Unknown Soldier · 10-12-2013, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus

Or claim to revile "grunge" and the Seattle scene and not even know who Tommy Niemeyer, Kim Thayil or Jerry Cantrell are.

I know embarrassing innit

MasterValette · 10-12-2013, 03:00 AM

I recommend F*cked Up and Cerebal Ballzy,that's real punk!...This is coming from an old CBGB Hardcore Matinee alumni!

Neapolitan · 10-12-2013, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus

Or claim to revile "grunge" and the Seattle scene and not even know who Tommy Niemeyer, Kim Thayil or Jerry Cantrell are.

That begs the question can he even find Seattle on a map?

Surell · 10-12-2013, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Larehip

Even if I accept this as true, there ain't room enough in this town for both of
'em so I pick punk.

That's a pretty ****ed up way of going about things, seeing as these are intangible subjects.

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That's true of hip-hop. Punk was that way from the beginning. Just look at the MC5--by the mid-60s were free jazz fanatics (Rob Tyner took his name from McCoy Tyner) who were avowed anarchists which they preached from the stage and involved in various anarchist and extreme left causes. And those movements all embraced dada if you ever bothered to check--were founded by dadaists. Punk wasn't born from dada, it was continuation of it. There would have been no punk without dada. That not every punk band knew s-hit about dada doesn't prove anything. I know people who hate the Beatles but love all these bands that never would have existed without them.

Well, the Ramones liked jangly pop music and sniffed glue, that may have had just as much influence as dadaism. I'm still pretty adamant in the position that dadaism is not the only reason people opposed war/government. It could have played a part, but I don't think it's the only answer, especially since punks were pretty anti-intellect (i.e., they sniffed glue).

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There was nothing pretentious about dada. They went head on against the Nazis and some ended up in the camps. They had a hell of a lot more guts than a lot of people today who fancy themselves rebellious when their "tude" consists of nothing but zoning out on ecstasy in a f-ucking rave somewhere, who only get mad when the cops interrupt their party.

Pretentious may have been the wrong word, I just mean that it's a very intellectual field that punks don't seem like they would gravitate toward since they were so amateurish in so many aspects.

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Again, that doesn't mean anything because the antiwar consciousness was raised by organizations that were either founded by or spun off of organizations founded by dadaists and other surrealists. The guy carrying a placard protesting a war may not be aware that he's doing this because dadaists came up with it but that's just his ignorance. It's not the reality.

Every single one? I have a hard time believing that.

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And it also gave us the MC5 so there you go.

Indeed.

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 10-12-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

That is about a twenty years difference between the two scenes. Twenty years is a long time, and there a lot that can happen in that time, and a lot did happen for better and worse. So you have no qualms about genres in between those two scences say for example Disco, Day-glo 80s Pop, or Glam Metal but for whatever reason Seattle and Detroit rubs you the wrong way?

I hate Seattle because that's where grunge came from and that music robbed me of my gigs. It was either surrender to it or rebel against it. Well, in the true spirit of punk and (supposedly) grunge, I chose the latter. No regrets. I did the right thing. As for Detroit, I live here. I'm sitting in Detroit as I type this. We were a great city at one time. We are not anymore. We are past our prime. Our due date has expired. But the truth is, the entire Western world is Detroit. We are in our twilight.

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Wow really? Are you serious? or are you phrasing that like a rhetorical question?

Wow really? You can name everybody in every band even when you never listened to them?? Neither can I.

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en if Kurt Cobain was the best playing lead guitar you can't fault him as a "hack" because he didn't pass himself off as the "greatest guitar you ever heard."

Well, he couldn't. I didn't hate Cobain, I hated the way morons fawned all over him like he was the greatest thing ever in music. He was a hack guitarist who wrote a few decent songs and had the sense to like the Meat Puppets. And he sparked an interest in Leadbelly and he deserves credit for that.

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I don't think Grunge was unmusical - like it or lump it - it just had a different music sensibility about it.

It sure did.

Mondo Bungle · 10-12-2013, 12:06 PM

Had to play grunge if you wanted to get a seattle gig in the 90's? Queensryche, Kenny G, Nevermore, Burning Witch, Carissa's Wierd, Hovercraft, Land, The Mentors, Sanctuary, and dozens of other artists would beg to differ.

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 10-12-2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surell

Well, the Ramones liked jangly pop music and sniffed glue, that may have had just as much influence as dadaism. I'm still pretty adamant in the position that dadaism is not the only reason people opposed war/government. It could have played a part, but I don't think it's the only answer, especially since punks were pretty anti-intellect (i.e., they sniffed glue).

How do you know what the Ramones were influenced by? Especially if they were from New York, which is home to about every art movement since Paris lost the title of world's art capital. And yes, that's where many of the dadaists went when the Nazis took over. That's where abstract expressionism was born--from dadaists--and it gave birth to political art movements and organizations such as Up Against the Wall Motherf-uckers who were from New York and they were some truly radical bastards--not the nicest people in the world either (picture Hell's Angels as a bunch of street-artists)--but their influence in the counter-culture is inestimable. Now, you're in a punk band playing all the cool clubs in New York, you're going to meet up with some wild, crazy people. I sure did playing in and around Detroit but then this area is the home of the SDS and similar political groups that, again, had a major impact on the counter-culture. I wouldn't assume the Ramones didn't meet people like that, I could almost guarantee they did. I'm sure if I did, they did. Who knows what all influenced them?

Paul Smeenus · 10-12-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle

Had to play grunge if you wanted to get a seattle gig in the 90's? Queensryche, Kenny G, Nevermore, Burning Witch, Carissa's Wierd, Hovercraft, Land, The Mentors, Sanctuary, and dozens of other artists would beg to differ.

Not to mention the aforementioned Forced Entry

The Accused

Sadhappy

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 10-12-2013, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle

Had to play grunge if you wanted to get a seattle gig in the 90's? Queensryche, Kenny G, Nevermore, Burning Witch, Carissa's Wierd, Hovercraft, Land, The Mentors, Sanctuary, and dozens of other artists would beg to differ.

And where are they now?

Mondo Bungle · 10-12-2013, 12:49 PM

Queensryche - Continuing to make albums and tour the world.
Kenny G - 25th highest selling artist in America
Nevermore - After releasing a slew of nice and successful 2000's albums, went on hiatus in 2011, but only after touring heavily with great success.
Burning Witch - I guess you got me here, they were only around for 3 years, but members went on to form Sunn O))) and Khanate, 2 highly revered bands in the metal community.
Carissa's Wierd - After influencing countless bands and sparking more interest in a musical movement, broke up in 2003. Members formed Band of Horses.
Hovercraft - Cited as one of the most abrasive, non-commercial sounding bands ever to receive major label distribution for its albums. The group was largely well respected and well received by critics and developed a cult following.
Land - Probably the only band I mentioned that hasn't had a huge, longstanding effect on music. Oh well, they made some great stuff right at the same time grunge was going strong, and many people enjoyed it.
The Mentors - do you not know the Mentors?
Sanctuary - Jeff Loomis was in the band, so they spawned the aforementioned Nevermore, highly influential and well regarded in the thrash scene.

Only an idiot would tell you going whateverthe****x platinum makes success.

10-12-2013, 03:00 AM	#92 (permalink)
MasterValette Groupie Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1	I recommend F*cked Up and Cerebal Ballzy,that's real punk!...This is coming from an old CBGB Hardcore Matinee alumni!