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-   Punk (https://www.musicbanter.com/punk/)
-   -   Punk Rock is Bullsh*t (article/essay) (https://www.musicbanter.com/punk/68720-punk-rock-bullsh-t-article-essay.html)

Unknown Soldier 07-10-2013 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newkie (Post 1342443)
To be honest, isn't it probably just as simple as that? Nationality and what people grew up in/with or were influenced by after the movement? My sister was about 11 in 78 and is vehement Punk is a British invention. I tend to think the culture and style and movement really developed over here, but given I wasn't around/don't pay all that much attention to genre history, I'm only going on opinion. The Ramones, while I don't care for them, were playing punk before Lydon joined the pistols so I can understand any argument for them being the first punk band. But as others have said, I don't think their influence was anywhere near that of the Pistols and asides from them I don't think there was too much going on in New York at the time. An American from that time or who knows that time (a lot better) will probably disagree with that. In either case I really don't see how it can go back before 74/75 though.
The Ramones presented a humorous side of punk which was quite distinct to the more aggressive and chaotic British model (not all the British bands were like that of course) For this reason anybody wanting to study the punk movement of this time, London and New York present a great contrast and a third contrast would probably be the Australian scene of this time as well.

Newkie 07-10-2013 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1342444)
The Ramones presented a humorous side of punk which was quite distinct to the more aggressive and chaotic British model (not all the British bands were like that of course) For this reason anybody wanting to study the punk movement of this time, London and New York present a great contrast and a third contrast would probably be the Australian scene of this time as well.
Yeah definitely true, but I still count that as completely punk though. The Ramones to me are a bit of "we're sh**, let's party" as opposed to Pistols humour of "everything's s**t, let's break more s**t"

I still think we had good humoured punk bands though, although I know there is contention over whether the Stranglers are punk or not, I always thought they were initially and also, pretty funny. But yeah, totally agree with the chaotic nature of British punk and the politicalisation of part of the movement too which seemed to be missing elsewhere. As for Australia, I really know sweet F/A about that scene but it doesn't surprise me they're overlooked, the poor buggers often are.

Dr_Rez 07-10-2013 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1342392)

It's like saying thrash metal started with Black Sabbath, because they played some fast and aggressive songs some 10 years before the thrash movement emerged in the early 1980s.
Sabbath did not have one song I would consider real thrash metal. At least not in the 70's. If I am mistaken then yes I would consider it the beginning of thrash. I dont care about the "movement", I care who made the sounds first.

Necromancer 07-10-2013 09:20 PM
Edit:

The origins of New York's punk rock scene can be traced back to such sources as late 1960s trash culture and an early 1970s underground rock movement centered on the Mercer Arts Center in Greenwich Village, where the New York Dolls performed. In early 1974, a new scene began to develop around the CBGB club, also in lower Manhattan.

After a brief period unofficially managing the New York Dolls, Englishman Malcolm McLaren returned to London in May 1975, inspired by the new scene he had witnessed at CBGB.

Urban Hat€monger ? 07-11-2013 03:55 AM
Malcolm McLaren was full of sh*t though.

This is a guy who's bright idea to revamp the New York Dolls was to dress them in red leather and align them with the communist party of China.

:laughing:

Unknown Soldier 07-11-2013 05:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Rez (Post 1342504)
Sabbath did not have one song I would consider real thrash metal. At least not in the 70's. If I am mistaken then yes I would consider it the beginning of thrash. I dont care about the "movement", I care who made the sounds first.
It was just an example of how far roots can go back and the need for a cut off line, before things start getting too vague. The missing links of course between Black Sabbath and thrash were speed metal, hardcore punk and the NWOBHM. In much the same way that the Stooges only formed part of the root for the arrival of punk in the mid 1970s.

Necromancer 07-11-2013 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ? (Post 1342721)
Malcolm McLaren was full of sh*t though.

This is a guy who's bright idea to revamp the New York Dolls was to dress them in red leather and align them with the communist party of China.

:laughing:
I do know that McLaren and Westwood designed red patent leather costumes for the New York Dolls and used a Soviet-style hammer and sickle motif for their stage show as a provocative means of promoting them. The ploy was not successful and the Dolls soon broke up.

In April 1975, McLaren returned to Britain. Where he continued his bizarre and provocative angles promoting the Sex Pistols. McLaren provided the name... (McLaren stated that he wanted them to sound like "sexy young assassins"). McLaren organized a boat trip down the Thames where the Sex Pistols would perform their music outside the Houses of Parliament. The boat was raided by the police and McLaren was arrested, thus achieving his goal to obtain publicity.

McLaren... the UK's version of Andy Warhol. ;)

Gavin B. 07-11-2013 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necromancer (Post 1341990)
I personally think The Who were one of the first to bring certain elements of punk rock to the masses more so than any other band or artist ever did. If I had to pick one of the first main innovators of punk rock, it would be the Who - My Generation (1965). Moon, Townshend, Daltrey, & Entwistle.
I agree... My Generation is every bit powerful as God Save the Queen as an musical anthem of rebellion. There was a streak of nihilism among the mod generation that was as "punk" as punk rock. Pete Townsend expressed the angry nihilism of his generation by busting up his guitar at every live performance of the Who in from 1966 to 1968.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...8762309496.jpg

The Batlord 07-11-2013 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1342444)
For this reason anybody wanting to study the punk movement of this time, London and New York present a great contrast and a third contrast would probably be the Australian scene of this time as well.
As far as I know the only real bands in Australia at the time that punk first started were The Saints and Radio Birdman, who lived in entirely different cities and didn't even know the each other existed. So I don't know if that qualifies as a scene.

Unknown Soldier 07-11-2013 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1342801)
As far as I know the only real bands in Australia at the time that punk first started were The Saints and Radio Birdman, who lived in entirely different cities and didn't even know the each other existed. So I don't know if that qualifies as a scene.
I don't think it was that big at all, I just mentioned it as another English speaking contrast where I know there was a punk scene.


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