Surell

Also William Burroughs is more punk than any asshole could ever wish to be.

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Janszoon

Exactly.

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A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

Psy-Fi

I once knew an older gent who said the same. He told me that in his youth, a punk was a term for a jailhouse sissy who took it up the ass.

Surell

I think Burroughs himself took it in an uncomfortable place every now and then, if Naked Lunch is any indication.

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The Batlord

If that's all punk is, then **** punk. That's just a social club for angry teenagers/misfits who want to conform to nonconformity because they're too insecure to have their own identity. A way for them to make their own little place in the world where they can call themselves cool and mock others in retaliation for others doing the same thing to them. Punk was just one snapshot in the timeline of alternative music (or whatever you wanna call it), and focusing in on one tiny part of it is just silly.

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Surell

I wouldn't call it tiny, it's one of the most vital parts in alternative music/rock's history.

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The Batlord

Mainly because it's famous. And it got famous largely through a bunch of goofy, angry teenagers and misfits using it as a fashion statement. I don't see it as being any more vital or influential than any of the proto punk bands that preceded it (Velvet Underground, Stooges, Modern Lovers, etc) or any of the post punk/new wave/whatever bands that came after it (far too many to name). It was just one snapshot in the evolution of rock music that doesn't really deserve the ludicrous amount of attention it's recieved over the years. Not to mention, I think that the punk movement as a whole has just been an exercise in diminishing returns.

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Surell

Well I think it at least deserves its significant stature for being the first full-fledged movement of full-on musical nihilism. Nothing before Punk had their ****-all attitude, coming down even to not caring how to play your instruments in what one would call a decent fashion. I may be wrong, but the only people I can think of using that kind of abandon in their music would be individual bands, not an entire genre. Not to mention the influence it had on greater movements down the line, like Post-Punk, or much super-ironic, irreverent indie music, or, as much as we may detest, grunge, hardcore and its branches (metalcore, mathcore, grindcore, etc.), and so on. Music hadn't been quite that overly aggressive until then, and its aggression can be felt to this day; I think that warrants its merit. Unless, of course, I have it all wrong.

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Forward To Death

Punk is definitely a huge influence on music, especially for what I listen to.

Hardcore, thrash, crossover, metalcore, groove, sludge.. There's a lot, and it's all got that punky attitude.

Granted, there is a lot of music with punk influence that totally sucks ass.

The Batlord

But you had all that with the first wave. Ramones, Sex Pistols, The Clash, etc. Why did we need a whole 'nother decade of countless bands rehashing the same three chords (not to mention the insufferable political ranting)? The smart bands like Wire, Subway Sect, Talking Heads, etc took those bands, got inspired and went off to do their own thing and NOT just rip them off without even the desire for originality besides just playing faster and more aggressive (of course there were exceptions, but they tended to be few and far between). All those bands were basically just heavy metal bands that didn't want to admit it. They may not have played the same stereotypes, but they were just angry teenagers who wanted to make noise.

I love metal, but I fully admit that a substantial chunk of metal bands have the same lack of originality. I mean, for god's sake, do we really need another death metal band? The difference to me is that metal is just a genre that is basically about making loud music. There are of course bands that aren't content with just making a racket, but the bands that are just about a racket aren't really committing any sin. Punk on the other hand was based on being original and not being satisfied with the same old rock and roll stereotypes that had become a self parody. Of course, that doesn't necessarily stop stereotypical punk bands from being fun, so, if you just like punk as a genre, then don't let me stop you. I still love Dead Kennedys and the Misfits after all.

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