POP/PUNK is dead

~~MrMagic1234~~ · 08-01-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger ?

For a dead genre you don't seem to want to talk about much else.

What's your point?

bob. · 08-01-2012, 06:58 PM

what have i started!?

~~MrMagic1234~~ · 08-01-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob.

what have i started!?

wat?

Justthefacts · 08-01-2012, 10:42 PM

It was a great movement while it lasted.

Neapolitan · 08-01-2012, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slow Groove

It was a great movement while it lasted.

Which one the 70's UK Punk Rock, 80's American Hardcore Punk or the 90's Green Day/Sum 41 movement?

joy_circumcision · 08-01-2012, 10:53 PM

Why did punk die with the hardcore movement? You explicitly acknowledge deathcore, post-hardcore (I would add emo/screamo and others would throw some on, too, I'm sure) so why do these evolutions count less than hardcore? Your subjective taste? That's cool. Then maybe the punk sound that you enjoy is dead. I can see that. The revivals are sorta based around post-punk and sorta silly in general, so that's fair.

But punk is dead discussions are just like rock is dead discussions - yeah, we're not gonna get a bunch of hippies smoking dope and playing sitars on a national or global scale again anytime soon, but that's because the music has evolved with the times.

And why is respect for the old acts the qualifier for good punk? I mean, yeah, for me, a qualifier for good punk is not being a homophobe, so that "gay" used as slur comment is displeasing, but I thought punk has always been about kicking the asses of the old vanguard and making your own. I might not like the sound of the new guys either, but to say that the screamo movement to name just one is not a strong countercultural movement based in the basic ideals (if not the sound) of punk rock is just false in my eyes.

~~MrMagic1234~~ · 08-02-2012, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joy_circumcision

Why did punk die with the hardcore movement? You explicitly acknowledge deathcore, post-hardcore (I would add emo/screamo and others would throw some on, too, I'm sure) so why do these evolutions count less than hardcore? Your subjective taste? That's cool. Then maybe the punk sound that you enjoy is dead. I can see that. The revivals are sorta based around post-punk and sorta silly in general, so that's fair.

But punk is dead discussions are just like rock is dead discussions - yeah, we're not gonna get a bunch of hippies smoking dope and playing sitars on a national or global scale again anytime soon, but that's because the music has evolved with the times.

And why is respect for the old acts the qualifier for good punk? I mean, yeah, for me, a qualifier for good punk is not being a homophobe, so that "gay" used as slur comment is displeasing, but I thought punk has always been about kicking the asses of the old vanguard and making your own. I might not like the sound of the new guys either, but to say that the screamo movement to name just one is not a strong countercultural movement based in the basic ideals (if no
t the sound) of punk rock is just false in my eyes.

You're putting quite a bit of words in my mouth don't you think? I never said having respect for old acts was a qualifier for good punk. What I was saying was, is that these kids have no respect for PUNK even though they wouldn't have their ****ty subgenres which are NOT PUNK without it. It's like people who dig Lil Wayne and Drake but think Run DMC are corny because they're old. Also, yeah punk EVOLVED into hardcore and the infinite subgenres that's my point. Whenever a single cellular organism evolves into a multicellular organism, it DOES become less of a single cellular organism because it's not a single cellular organism anymore. That's just common sense.

So your argument doesn't really hold any water bro. As a matter of fact you kind of just stated the same thing I did.

~~MrMagic1234~~ · 08-02-2012, 01:20 AM

And just by the way, I don't hate hardcore or it's subgenres, hell, I even dig a lot of beatdown and deathcore stuff even though those are frowned upon by a lot of people who dig oldschool hardcore and punk. So this isn't me acting like an old fart towards more recent evolutions of punk, this is me just stating an observation I've made that punk isn't a GENRE it WAS a MOVEMENT and it died

Holerbot6000 · 08-02-2012, 02:09 AM

Crossover Thrash? Deathcore? Who comes up with this sh*t? Sorry, I'm old and I'm running out of time so I can't be bothered to worry whether the punk rock I'm listening to is Speed Flap or Post Garbage Can. I just want to jump around and ROK out.

I do remember back in those 'Punk as Movement' days when some kids would get really snotty about what was and wasn't punk. Black Flag was hilariously notorious for playing sets of heavy metal and psychedelic covers whenever they faced an elitist punk crowd.

I understand what you're saying about being part of something, where maybe a particular type of music transcends a moment in time and becomes something more than the sum of it's parts, but I don't think that phenomenon is unique to punk rock. And I don't think it's fair to kill Punk off as a legitimate genre just because that moment has passed.

Punk is Punk, no matter how many dizzying sub genres you want to divide it up into and, as such, I think it's alive and well and always will be. Just one more crayon in the musical box, as it were.

~~MrMagic1234~~ · 08-02-2012, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holerbot6000

Crossover Thrash? Deathcore? Who comes up with this sh*t? Sorry, I'm old and I'm running out of time so I can't be bothered to worry whether the punk rock I'm listening to is Speed Flap or Post Garbage Can. I just want to jump around and ROK out.

I do remember back in those 'Punk as Movement' days when some kids would get really snotty about what was and wasn't punk. Black Flag was hilariously notorious for playing sets of heavy metal and psychedelic covers whenever they faced an elitist punk crowd.

I understand what you're saying about being part of something, where maybe a particular type of music transcends a moment in time and becomes something more than the sum of it's parts, but I don't think that phenomenon is unique to punk rock. And I don't think it's fair to kill Punk off as a legitimate genre just because that moment has passed.

Punk is Punk, no matter how many dizzying sub genres you want to divide it up into and, as such, I think it's alive and well and always will be. Just one more crayon in the musical box, as it were.

Actually Black Flag's my favorite band and I dig a lot of stuff other then punk so it's not like I'm a snotty elitist about it. It's perfectly fair to kill punk off. It's dead. Its spirit EXISTS in the dizzying subgenres, but a father and mother's spirit exists within their child, that doesn't mean the child is a carbon copy of their mother and father. I'm a eighth Native American, the blood and spirit of my great grandfather is within me, but that doesn't mean I could start a tribe with a bunch of other white people with a slight bit of Native American in them. I COULD but how the hell could we possibly say we're a Native American tribe when we're all related to people who slaughtered Native Americans as well?

Same thing with punk and the subgenres.

Also, your statement about Black Flag is a bit spun. They didn't play psychedelia and metal specifically to piss off punk elitists, they played it because that's what they began to enjoy playing and it pissed off the punk elitists who were their fans and after awhile they obviously begun to get a kick out of it.

08-01-2012, 06:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
bob. Still sends his reguards. Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Trying to get out of the cat town.... Posts: 5,039	what have i started!? __________________ A kiss is the beginning of cannibalism. Reach out, pierce the fine fabric of the sheltering sky, take repose.

08-01-2012, 10:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
joy_circumcision Music Addict Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 126	Why did punk die with the hardcore movement? You explicitly acknowledge deathcore, post-hardcore (I would add emo/screamo and others would throw some on, too, I'm sure) so why do these evolutions count less than hardcore? Your subjective taste? That's cool. Then maybe the punk sound that you enjoy is dead. I can see that. The revivals are sorta based around post-punk and sorta silly in general, so that's fair. But punk is dead discussions are just like rock is dead discussions - yeah, we're not gonna get a bunch of hippies smoking dope and playing sitars on a national or global scale again anytime soon, but that's because the music has evolved with the times. And why is respect for the old acts the qualifier for good punk? I mean, yeah, for me, a qualifier for good punk is not being a homophobe, so that "gay" used as slur comment is displeasing, but I thought punk has always been about kicking the asses of the old vanguard and making your own. I might not like the sound of the new guys either, but to say that the screamo movement to name just one is not a strong countercultural movement based in the basic ideals (if not the sound) of punk rock is just false in my eyes. __________________ My Music Journal My RYM (My Pride and Joy)

08-01-2012, 10:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
Justthefacts President spic Join Date: May 2012 Location: Waxahatchee Posts: 4,861	It was a great movement while it lasted.

08-02-2012, 01:20 AM	#8 (permalink)
~~MrMagic1234~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 20	And just by the way, I don't hate hardcore or it's subgenres, hell, I even dig a lot of beatdown and deathcore stuff even though those are frowned upon by a lot of people who dig oldschool hardcore and punk. So this isn't me acting like an old fart towards more recent evolutions of punk, this is me just stating an observation I've made that punk isn't a GENRE it WAS a MOVEMENT and it died

08-02-2012, 02:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
Holerbot6000 Music Mutant Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: near a record store Posts: 327	Crossover Thrash? Deathcore? Who comes up with this sh*t? Sorry, I'm old and I'm running out of time so I can't be bothered to worry whether the punk rock I'm listening to is Speed Flap or Post Garbage Can. I just want to jump around and ROK out. I do remember back in those 'Punk as Movement' days when some kids would get really snotty about what was and wasn't punk. Black Flag was hilariously notorious for playing sets of heavy metal and psychedelic covers whenever they faced an elitist punk crowd. I understand what you're saying about being part of something, where maybe a particular type of music transcends a moment in time and becomes something more than the sum of it's parts, but I don't think that phenomenon is unique to punk rock. And I don't think it's fair to kill Punk off as a legitimate genre just because that moment has passed. Punk is Punk, no matter how many dizzying sub genres you want to divide it up into and, as such, I think it's alive and well and always will be. Just one more crayon in the musical box, as it were.