VEGANGELICA

Hello Thirtiesgirl and Paloma,

At first I thought maybe you were both posting about the song, "A Girl's Toolbox," that I posted...the one where the duo Tattle Tale sing, "I have a hammer, but the nail isn't you."

Then I saw you are upset with each other.

Thirtiesgirl (and hello, by the way! I've been meaning to say hello to you since you joined), it sounds like you are upset with Paloma calling people twats, which as she knows uses female anatomy as a putdown. Is this right? My guess is that Paloma doesn't mean anything bad about women by using that term. Are you wishing that Paloma would acknowledge the derogatory origin of the putdown, "twat?"

As an aside, I view the word "twat" as being similar to the term "Squaw," used for female Native American Indians, since "Squaw" apparently was the derotagory word for vagina that white people called American Indian women, reducing women to their genitalia. I grew up saying "Squaw" without ever thinking I was being offensive...and now most people have forgotten its original meaning. Similarly, for many people "twat" now just means "jerk."

I agree with you that people calling each other jerks isn't good, just because name-calling is hurtful (if it is intended as such). Also, I think "jerk" maybe came from "jerking off," and appears to be a male term being turned into something bad, which is unfortunate for men since they should have nothing to be ashamed about when they "do the Han Solo!" I don't feel bad at all when I "shake hands with my little friend," so why should jerking off be bad?

And Paloma, I see you're upset with feeling condescended to and judged for using whatever words you want to use, plus you feel Thirtiesgirl sees people in terms of gender first. Are these the main issues? You would like her to acknowledge that she is being condescending. My feeling is that she wants all people to be treated with respect, regardless of gender. You want her to treat you respectfully, too.

I decided to jump in fast before someone (TheCunningStunt) sees what's happening and screams, "CHICK FIGHT in the GRRL RIOT THREAD!!!!"

(Waiting...waiting...)

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someonecompletelyrandom

dick.


just throwing that out there.

FaSho

quit trolling, pussy.

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Engine

Ha, I like this post, VEG. Very good.

Here's a video of Bikini Kill playing live in DC in 1992. This was where political punk bands played outside usually for free. I saw Fugazi in this same spot within months of this video. The sound is bad (like Really Bad) at points because of things like it's windy. I think they even say 'twat' at some point

VEGANGELICA

Yes, exactly, Conan. ****. Twat. Equal terms that reduce people to genitalia and sexuality.

Except...my guess is that men were the originators of both terms.

Please research this, Conan, and get back to us, would you? This is your assignment, young feminist grasshopper. And find a Riot Grrrl song that deals with ****s, while you're at it. Is there one?

HEY!!! Dick gets filtered out but twat doesn't!! What's up with that!? Apparently it is okay to use female genitalia as a derogatory term, but not male genitalia? Grrrrrr. See. That IS an example of sexism. Oh, the can of stink you have opened, Conan...

Thank you, Engine!

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Dirty

Vegan you crack me up sometimes

someonecompletelyrandom

Uh oh. It's time for some investigative journalism.

Paedantic Basterd

Don't worry, Vegan, "cunt" is still out of bounds.

thirtiesgirl

I understand that for many people, 'twat' is a throwaway word that, as you write, Angelica, they don't think of much differently from 'jerk.' It's unfortunate, because the word is derogatory and not one that should be in common usage. There's no positive application for the word and, as far as I know, no current movement to reclaim the word and repurpose it for a more powerful intent.

It's kind of like when I hear school kids using the phrase "that's so gay" to mean they think something's stupid. They don't mean to make a homophobic remark, but because they're using the term to mean something negative (stupid), the word 'gay' is equated with something negative in their minds, and therefore homophobic.

Yes, I would like all people to be treated with respect, regardless of gender. I'm not going to call people names, as has been done to me on this forum, but I refuse to respect someone's viewpoint if they speak and act disrespectfully to women, regardless of their gender.

Here's the thing, Paloma. You may scoff at third wave feminism and think you're "too cool" for it when there are women being treated as third class citizens and valued solely for their body parts, or prevented from touching them, or using them in any way they see fit in non-western cultures all over the world. In Latin America, too. I'm not ok with that, and one of the ways I work to make a change in that horrible reality is by making people aware of when they're treating women as less than, valuing them only for their physical appearance, rather than appreciating and respecting the whole woman and everything she has to offer. I believe that if we begin to change that paradigm locally, it may eventually have a greater affect globally.

You, on the other hand, are apparently too cool to care, and have therefore earned no respect from me.

Yes.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Sansa Stark

Am I too cool for third wave feminism?



That looks like a no. Does my use of common slang contribute to female circumcision? Does it stop when I stop using the word? No, it does not. Deeds speak louder than slang words does. Don't think for one second you are making a difference by haranguing people on an internet forum for their perceived prejudices. You really look like an ******* and because you don't respect people for being human rather than just female, you don't deserve my respect either, especially when you condescend to me. It honestly makes your argument so much less valid when you attempt to wound on a personal level unrelated to the argument. If you really want to make a difference, why don't you go volunteer at a battered women's shelter? You are absolutely absurd for equating a slang term with physically and sexually oppressing women. Get a grip on yourself, you make no movement for your cause (which is admirable) by acting like a ****head. Your hyperbole is the downfall of many admirable causes, and you are the reason why people are so critical of feminism itself.