right wing punk?

**Janszoon** · 03-22-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

It means that any notion of collective guilt on the part of whites is asinine, and - as you hint - it's more of an issue of class than race. To use a bit of vulgar historical materialism, the era of slavery in the USA, with the exception of the latter years, was bound to happen - the proto-capitalist and the still dominant mercantilist economy necessitated slavery. Racism was a by-product of this necessity... racism was a result of slavery, not a cause.

I don't even know where to begin with this one. First off, you're completely misreading my comment about class. Secondly, are you seriously arguing that racism did not exist among Europeans prior to slavery in the US?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the point of conviction rates - wouldn't individuals from black majority neighborhoods tend to have black majority jury, as well? As jury duty is tied to where you vote...

Say what? It's not like there are courthouses in every neighborhood. I don't know if this is true in every state, but in the majority of them certainly, courts cover entire counties. That means you get a jury drawn from across your whole county, not your particular neighborhood. I would assume any adult in the US would know this. Have you never had jury duty?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

That's true, but you're ignoring the fact that there are many black Americans alive today who experienced segregation firsthand,

You're forgetting that segregations effects weren't universal in the African American community. Some blacks were forced into povery because of it; some profitted handsomely from it. Further, you're forgetting that segregation's negative economic effects weren't limited to the black community - it harmed working class whites as well.

Considering the fact that you chose to ignore the rest of the sentence you quoted I'm not really going to dignify this comment with much of a response except to note that you now appear to be defending segregation as a nice little follow-up to your defense of slavery earlier. Are you absolutely sure you aren't a white supremacist?

fairborn420 · 03-22-2010, 05:37 PM

There are many whites alive today that had friends or family lynched. Look up the figures. Lynching at that time was how they did things. Far more whites were lynched then blacks. Granted, blacks were lynched alot of time for no other reason that being black, but the fact remains that the number of whites lynched is higher than the number of blacks lynched. At any rate, as long as we keep making excuses seem valid things will not get better. Largely, there is no injustice today. Racism is in large part dead. Sure there are a few pockets of nuckle heads but that will never change. For the most part, whites and blacks, couldnt care less about skin color. And if you really get down to it, I would be willing to bet that if you could get everyone to be honest about whether or not they had racist views, there would be more blacks that are racist against whites than vice versa.

**Janszoon** · 03-22-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairborn420

There are many whites alive today that had friends or family lynched. Look up the figures. Lynching at that time was how they did things. Far more whites were lynched then blacks. Granted, blacks were lynched alot of time for no other reason that being black, but the fact remains that the number of whites lynched is higher than the number of blacks lynched.

So you acknowledge that you are comparing apples and oranges then. Thanks! That saves me the effort writing any kind of rebuttal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairborn420

At any rate, as long as we keep making excuses seem valid things will not get better. Largely, there is no injustice today. Racism is in large part dead. Sure there are a few pockets of nuckle heads but that will never change. For the most part, whites and blacks, couldnt care less about skin color. And if you really get down to it, I would be willing to bet that if you could get everyone to be honest about whether or not they had racist views, there would be more blacks that are racist against whites than vice versa.

I think you are fooling yourself if you think racism is in a large part dead. Things are better than they used to be for sure, but we still have a ways to go. And, for the record, I do believe that applies to everyone, not just white people.

hip hop bunny hop · 03-23-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Secondly, are you seriously arguing that racism did not exist among Europeans prior to slavery in the US?

The notion of race only became popularized after institutionalized slavery came into being in the "new world". Remember, race is a cultural construction.

Quote:

except to note that you now appear to be defending segregation as a nice little follow-up to your defense of slavery earlier.

I defended segregation and slavery, when?

Quote:

Say what? It's not like there are courthouses in every neighborhood. I don't know if this is true in every state, but in the majority of them certainly, courts cover entire counties. That means you get a jury drawn from across your whole county, not your particular neighborhood. I would assume any adult in the US would know this. Have you never had jury duty?

No, I've never had jury duty, and while I realize that every neighborhood doesn't have courthouses, often times neighborhoods will have their own polling station (at least for Presidential elections).

**Janszoon** · 03-23-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

The notion of race only became popularized after institutionalized slavery came into being in the "new world". Remember, race is a cultural construction.

Source?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

I defended segregation and slavery, when?

In this very thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

No, I've never had jury duty, and while I realize that every neighborhood doesn't have courthouses, often times neighborhoods will have their own polling station (at least for Presidential elections).

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the justice system and as a result is completely irrelevant to this conversation.

TheBig3 · 03-23-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Source?

What are you asking for a source on? That its a social construct, or that it came to pass on slavery?

**Janszoon** · 03-23-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

What are you asking for a source on? That its a social construct, or that it came to pass on slavery?

I'm looking for a source for his claim that racism only came into existence after new world slavery.

Engine · 03-23-2010, 08:59 PM

Fuck, man. Anybody can see that Janszoon knows his US/World History while Hip Hop Bunny (and his ilk) continues to spout White Supremecist pamphlet rhetoric.
As I already said, I fully believe in Hip-Hop Bunny's right to hate whoever he wants for any political or personal reason but let's stop humoring the racists on MB so much that they believe that their anti-non-white American views are based on any kind of valid reasoning. They're fucking racists, there are musical bands who encourage their view and we all have to live with it. So what?

fairborn420 · 03-24-2010, 06:38 PM

You mean anyone who agrees with him can see that he knows his history. Fact is, he knows no more than anyone else who is posting. Thats not a knock on him, its just reality. Because you agree with him you think is history is better than others. Also, you post just proves that political correctness and white guilt has gone too far. Its to the point to where anyone who is white brings up a subject that even mentions blacks, they must be racist. Its silly really.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 03-24-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairborn420

you post just proves that political correctness and white guilt has gone too far.

No it doesn't

Nobody is stopping you from saying what you think or saying you can't say it.

If your argument is torn to shreds it either means the stuff you're coming out with is rubbish, or you're not making the point very well.
Nothing to do with political correctness.

03-23-2010, 08:59 PM	#158 (permalink)
Engine air quote Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: pollen & mold Posts: 3,108	Fuck, man. Anybody can see that Janszoon knows his US/World History while Hip Hop Bunny (and his ilk) continues to spout White Supremecist pamphlet rhetoric. As I already said, I fully believe in Hip-Hop Bunny's right to hate whoever he wants for any political or personal reason but let's stop humoring the racists on MB so much that they believe that their anti-non-white American views are based on any kind of valid reasoning. They're fucking racists, there are musical bands who encourage their view and we all have to live with it. So what? __________________ Like an arrow, I was only passing through.

03-22-2010, 05:37 PM	#152 (permalink)
fairborn420 Groupie Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 16	There are many whites alive today that had friends or family lynched. Look up the figures. Lynching at that time was how they did things. Far more whites were lynched then blacks. Granted, blacks were lynched alot of time for no other reason that being black, but the fact remains that the number of whites lynched is higher than the number of blacks lynched. At any rate, as long as we keep making excuses seem valid things will not get better. Largely, there is no injustice today. Racism is in large part dead. Sure there are a few pockets of nuckle heads but that will never change. For the most part, whites and blacks, couldnt care less about skin color. And if you really get down to it, I would be willing to bet that if you could get everyone to be honest about whether or not they had racist views, there would be more blacks that are racist against whites than vice versa.

03-24-2010, 06:38 PM	#159 (permalink)
fairborn420 Groupie Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 16	You mean anyone who agrees with him can see that he knows his history. Fact is, he knows no more than anyone else who is posting. Thats not a knock on him, its just reality. Because you agree with him you think is history is better than others. Also, you post just proves that political correctness and white guilt has gone too far. Its to the point to where anyone who is white brings up a subject that even mentions blacks, they must be racist. Its silly really.