Operation Ivy Homophobes

Freebase Dali · 06-28-2009, 04:54 PM

I thought it was all about disdain for ska revival fans, as demonstrated in Propagandhi's "Ska Sucks" song where their "message to you, rudie" is "Fuck you, rudie".

**Janszoon** · 06-28-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTown787

Wow, I really missed a lot, just woek up..

Back to what I was saying and to answer a few questions that were scattered amongst the fight with the mod and kid who posted "who cares if there homophobes" (although it does matter to me.

I'm not usually one for deleting stuff but if you'd like me to delete the whole retarded conversation with Schredds I'll be happy to. It's your thread after all, just let me know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTown787

I am a huge Operation Ivy fan, I'm not bashing them in any way, I'd just like to know if Tim Armstrong is a homophobe or not, what brought me to ask this question is the fact Leftover Crack's song "*** Rude Boys" is an attack on Tim Armstrong and a parody of Unity ( an op ivy song), talking about how Operation Ivy states they are anti-racist, anti- homophobic and all that good stuff yet having a homophobe, Tim Armstrong, in there band.

So I am just trying to figure out if Tim Armstrong is truly a homophobe or if it's just a rumor, which would change how I look at tim Armstrong if he in fact is a homophobe due to the fact in the notes inside Op Ivy's album Energy , it states;

" Music is an indirect force for change, because it provides an anchor against human tragedy. In this sense, it works towards a reconciled world. It can also be the direct experience of change. At certain points during some shows, the reconciled world is already here, at least in that second, at that place. Operation Ivy was very lucky to have experienced this. Those seconds reveal that the momentum that drives a subculture is more important than any particular band. The momentum is made of all the people who stay interested, and keep their sense of urgency and hope.
—J."

And i think it's also pretty obvious that operation ivy is a big fan of equality thus contradicting Tim Armstrong if he really is a homophobe.

I found this interview with Leftover Crack here that seems to explain where those accusations may have originated. To me it doesn't give any indication at all Tim Armstrong is a homophobe, just that his label has signed an artist who has made homophobic comments in the past. Here's the relevant part of the interview:

Quote:

Speaking of Hellcat, I don't mean to keep bringing it up but this is my first chance to talk with you guys, I've read that the song "*** Rude Boys Unite" was, in part, a reaction to Hellcat releasing or signing homophobic artists or content. Is there any truth to that?

Stza: Yeah, I mean it was a combination of a lot of things but pretty much all of them had to do with Hellcat. At the time I was at Tim Armstrong's house for some reason, I stayed there one night or two, I was homeless. He begrudgingly let me stay over and soil his nice place. Anyways, Buju Banton's (look up)manager was there. She's this girl, I don't know where she's from, I assume she's from Jamaca because that's where he lives. And Buju Banton is famous for being homophobic and I was asking her about that, like what's up with that? She was like, Shaba Ranks (who's a huge reggae and dancehall artist) he apologized for being homophobic and she thought I was homophobic, apparently. She's like, "But Buju Banton, he never apologized". I was like, "Oh yeah, right". Like, she wanted me to give her a high five or something. So Tim really wanted Buju Banton to be on Hellcat. Epitaph kind of ended up stealing him for Anti Records. There were a couple of other bands on Hellcat with questionable lyrics. So, I kinda took a bunch of stuff, I took a lot of Op Ivy references and put them into the song and the music is kind of the same thing as "Yelling in my Ear". I was kinda poking fun at him at the time, like we weren't enemies (this is before we had any problems with the artwork) but I was just really disappointed with what I was seeing at the label in general. This kind of sexist punk attitude that Rancid and Lars and the Bastards kind of propagate.

+81 · 06-28-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unfan

No you don't. You want to silence and shut out homophobia and don't show any respect to homophobic people. If they truly deserve the same rights as homosexuals than homophobic people have to have the right to express their dislike of homosexuals and the homosexual community in the same ways homosexuals can express their homosexuality. If homosexuals can have a non-violent gathering and the rights to publically express their homosexuality than homophobic people need to have the right to have non-violent gatherings and the ability to publically express their views on homosexuality. Sure homophobia is ignorant, but it isn't fair to limit them based on favoritism.

Fine, let me rephrase myself. I for one care quite a bit about equal rights and respect for all people so long as their beliefs or lifestyle don't condone the oppression of others.

To BTown787 - aside from aiding in the derailing of the thread, I did provide a possible answer to your original question.
Well I think Janszoon solved the case.

BTown · 06-28-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I'm not usually one for deleting stuff but if you'd like me to delete the whole retarded conversation with Schredds I'll be happy to. It's your thread after all, just let me know.

I found this interview with Leftover Crack [removed] that seems to explain where those accusations may have originated. To me it doesn't give any indication at all Tim Armstrong is a homophobe, just that his label has signed an artist who has made homophobic comments in the past. Here's the relevant part of the interview:

Thanks man, and might as well leave the argument up, stuff like this is always gonna happen and it already did, deleting it isn't going to change anyones feelings or make anyones thoughts go away.

Back to the purpose of the thread, In the interveiw Stza said something about an incident with "the artwork", do you by any chance know what the artwork incident was?

crazymenrunningback · 06-29-2009, 12:25 AM

I like this thread, its like watching a reality show on VH1 for me (but not as hot).

I do think that operation ivys lyrics at some point were a little homophobic but you never can really know there true feelings.

chrisjamieson · 11-18-2009, 01:42 AM

sorry to bump an old thread, but i just came across this forum specifically because i was searching about information concerning this issue. i don't think any of op ivy's songs were anywhere near homophobic, nothing i've ever heard from tim or any of his projects have been homophobic in my eyes, but i just read about his collaboration with buju banton, who has been specifically noted as being a staunch homophobe and has had songs that have explicitly depicted inciting violence against *** people. i've always held epitaph, anti-, hellcat, and everyone related with these labels in quite high regard as far as social morality, and i've been basically unable to find any concrete statements from tim giving his rebuttal on collaborating with an artist who is/has been homophobic. does anyone know if tim has actually spoken on this issue? it would definitely alter my respect for him..

another issue that's been brought up in this thread is the right for homophobic people, artists or people in general, to have the right to speak their mind.. this is something that is kind of interesting - i personally would be of the mindset to squash out the ability of these people to spread their intolerance, but there definitely is something behind the idea of free speech, and being able to say and do as you wish, despite how intolerant and, frankly, pretty moronic it is.

i hope this doesn't come across in the wrong way, but part of what's really irking me about banton's homophobia is the fact that he has to have felt some intolerance due to his race, and he still has the audacity to harbor animosity towards another sort of quote-unquote minority. despite there (apparently) being a history of homophobia within the jamaican community, with banton (as an example) being a successful artist internationally, i find it difficult to believe that no parallels could be drawn in his mind between the racial intolerance that has been prevalent in other nations (america specifically) and intolerance against homosexuals.

strange, strange world.

BTown · 11-18-2009, 02:30 PM

After this thread died and I read more into I came across an interveiw in which Stza (Leftover Crack, *** Rude Boys Unite, the song that proclaimed tim armstron as a homophobe) stated that he just had a strong dislike of Tim Armstrong. From what seemed like an attack on all of Operation Ivy was just on Tim Armstrong. I remember about how Stza complained one time he needed a place to stay so he went to armtrong and Armstrong was really rude and reluctant about it or something.

I can assure you that Operation Ivy isn't homophobic and I'm sure Armstrong isn't either, I guess Leftover Crack saw Stza's collaboration with buju banton hypocritical.

chrisjamieson · 11-20-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTown787

After this thread died and I read more into I came across an interveiw in which Stza (Leftover Crack, *** Rude Boys Unite, the song that proclaimed tim armstron as a homophobe) stated that he just had a strong dislike of Tim Armstrong. From what seemed like an attack on all of Operation Ivy was just on Tim Armstrong. I remember about how Stza complained one time he needed a place to stay so he went to armtrong and Armstrong was really rude and reluctant about it or something.

I can assure you that Operation Ivy isn't homophobic and I'm sure Armstrong isn't either, I guess Leftover Crack saw Stza's collaboration with buju banton hypocritical.

i actually read that interview; it didn't say much about tim as a person but it didn't really constructively comment on homophobia. i'm not going to stay stza should be the be-all-end-all of moral critique; i'm more worried, as i guess he was, about the moral implication of knowing that banton had homophobic ties and still choosing to collaborate. and beyond that, having a contract inked with epitaph/anti-. i guess i might be acting more PC than is really rational, but punk rock is really not the place for hate in any fashion, and i've been digging tim, op ivy, and rancid for quite awhile.

the only thing that's still unsettling is the fact that i've searched pretty extensively and i haven't seen anything with tim speaking on the fact that he dealt with someone who maintains perspectives that clashed so greatly with essentially everything that op ivy stood for. if you're going to collaborate with someone that has such hateful viewpoints, at least have the cojones to stand up and explain. it's curious and a bit unnerving, but again, maybe i'm reading into everything too much.

Axiomatic Wiki · 11-24-2009, 02:47 AM

I could care less if any of the members were homophobes. I enjoy their music, and that is all I care about.

nickn · 12-21-2009, 07:46 PM

wow what a thread. on the whole tim thing i dont know how you can trust a left over crack song talking about operation ivy. i mean seriously op ivy was a very influential band that helped put lookout records on the map and bring ska to a new audience. and i mean with lyrics like "unity unity we all stand together" does that sound homophobic?

06-28-2009, 04:54 PM	#51 (permalink)
Freebase Dali Partying on the inside Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,584	I thought it was all about disdain for ska revival fans, as demonstrated in Propagandhi's "Ska Sucks" song where their "message to you, rudie" is "Fuck you, rudie". __________________

06-29-2009, 12:25 AM	#55 (permalink)
crazymenrunningback Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: S.F Posts: 128	I like this thread, its like watching a reality show on VH1 for me (but not as hot). I do think that operation ivys lyrics at some point were a little homophobic but you never can really know there true feelings. __________________ If god didnt want you to have sex till you married, why did he make it feel so good?

11-18-2009, 02:30 PM	#57 (permalink)
BTown super cool Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 806	After this thread died and I read more into I came across an interveiw in which Stza (Leftover Crack, *** Rude Boys Unite, the song that proclaimed tim armstron as a homophobe) stated that he just had a strong dislike of Tim Armstrong. From what seemed like an attack on all of Operation Ivy was just on Tim Armstrong. I remember about how Stza complained one time he needed a place to stay so he went to armtrong and Armstrong was really rude and reluctant about it or something. I can assure you that Operation Ivy isn't homophobic and I'm sure Armstrong isn't either, I guess Leftover Crack saw Stza's collaboration with buju banton hypocritical. __________________

11-24-2009, 02:47 AM	#59 (permalink)
Axiomatic Wiki Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Souvlaki Space Station Posts: 99	I could care less if any of the members were homophobes. I enjoy their music, and that is all I care about. __________________ http://www.last.fm/user/AxiomaticWiki

11-18-2009, 01:42 AM	#56 (permalink)
chrisjamieson Groupie Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 7	sorry to bump an old thread, but i just came across this forum specifically because i was searching about information concerning this issue. i don't think any of op ivy's songs were anywhere near homophobic, nothing i've ever heard from tim or any of his projects have been homophobic in my eyes, but i just read about his collaboration with buju banton, who has been specifically noted as being a staunch homophobe and has had songs that have explicitly depicted inciting violence against *** people. i've always held epitaph, anti-, hellcat, and everyone related with these labels in quite high regard as far as social morality, and i've been basically unable to find any concrete statements from tim giving his rebuttal on collaborating with an artist who is/has been homophobic. does anyone know if tim has actually spoken on this issue? it would definitely alter my respect for him.. another issue that's been brought up in this thread is the right for homophobic people, artists or people in general, to have the right to speak their mind.. this is something that is kind of interesting - i personally would be of the mindset to squash out the ability of these people to spread their intolerance, but there definitely is something behind the idea of free speech, and being able to say and do as you wish, despite how intolerant and, frankly, pretty moronic it is. i hope this doesn't come across in the wrong way, but part of what's really irking me about banton's homophobia is the fact that he has to have felt some intolerance due to his race, and he still has the audacity to harbor animosity towards another sort of quote-unquote minority. despite there (apparently) being a history of homophobia within the jamaican community, with banton (as an example) being a successful artist internationally, i find it difficult to believe that no parallels could be drawn in his mind between the racial intolerance that has been prevalent in other nations (america specifically) and intolerance against homosexuals. strange, strange world.

12-21-2009, 07:46 PM	#60 (permalink)
nickn Groupie Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 23	wow what a thread. on the whole tim thing i dont know how you can trust a left over crack song talking about operation ivy. i mean seriously op ivy was a very influential band that helped put lookout records on the map and bring ska to a new audience. and i mean with lyrics like "unity unity we all stand together" does that sound homophobic?