Janszoon

See, I'd say that broadening the definition of punk to include bands like The Who makes the label fairly meaningless because it makes it so broad.

Roots rock is stripped down in a different way from punk. It generally involves incorporating americana influences like country into rock music.

Well The Beatles weren't part of the first wave of rock so they aren't that relevant to the conversation. And maybe you're right about Buddy Holly but his band The Crickets did record the original version of "I Fought the Law" in 1959. Elvis definitely had the "rebel" image thing going on and I think real rock pioneers like Chuck Berry, Ike Turner, Eddie Cochran, Carl Perkins, Little Richard, Gene Vincent and Jerry Lee Lewis were all about rejecting authority. It wasn't manifested in the same way as punk rock because it was a different era but it was certainly there.

Minstrel

I don't think the Who, as a band, were punk. But I think that song definitely fit the aesthetic.

As for Elvis, Chuck Berry and the rest...they were considered rebellious and edgy not for actually expressing anti-establishment themes but because their style was sexual and a departure from the buttoned-down pop stars before rock & roll. So, in that way, rock began as anti-establishment, but the themes really weren't.

"My Generation" was directly challenging the authority lyrically (and the music matched the aggression) and that was fairly new (though, you do have a point about The Crickets recording "I Fought The Law"...I didn't know they did the first version of that). I think that sort of sneering individualism was the aesthetic of punk, through the Stooges, Modern Lovers, New York Dolls right on through the Sex Pistols.

I think that aesthetic was largely absent from music before that.

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Surell

True. But we could call it Protopunk and not let anyone question it. ;]

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Janszoon

You know, your posts are so damn well written and well thought out that honestly I don't think I have anything more to contribute to the conversation. I guess we'll just have to agree to sort of disagree but also kind of agree in a weird way.

ETA: I'm really enjoying that Modern Lovers album by the way. I especially love "Government Center".

Janszoon

Now that's an idea I can get on board with!

Surell

Good, good. My plan is coming together...

So anyway... let's discuss some Protopunk songs that be catchy. So then we could name the whole Who's Next. =/

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Minstrel

*laugh* I was thinking the same thing. When I asked "Why?" I honestly didn't expect much more than "Because it doesn't seem punk to me" based on past discussions on other forums with other people. I was caught a bit off-guard by such good reasoning. It forced me to think harder about why I consider it punk, which is a nice result of a discussion.

I'm glad. I'm a big fan of Richman, and that album especially. "I'm Straight" is probably my favourite.

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KRUGER

the gym is neutral territory- lifetime
ursula finnaly has t!ts- the queers

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Brad Stengel

Me too. "Hospital" is up there as well...and of course, "Roadrunner". That might be my favorite album of the 70's.

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Grunge_Junkie

Sex bomb-Flipper and....
Blitzkreig Bomb-Rammones
Guns of Brixton-The Clash

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