Minstrel

Why?

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"Blow your tuneless trumpet, the choice is yours / We don't want the glamour, the pomp and the drums / The Dublin messiah scattering crumbs"

Brad Stengel

I think if it came out 10 years later, it would be unquestionably punk. Songs like that were only guilty of being ahead of their time. For example, you could classify Jesus & Mary Chain & Cocteau Twins as Shoegaze even though the term wasnt around during their prime. Same applies to certain 60's songs. Patti Smith covered My Generation, and despite her not changing much about it, its still considered punk.

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Janszoon

Because I don't think it was punk. It was certainly a precursor to punk but not actually punk itself.

Look at it this way: Punk was a stripping down of rock n roll to it's raw roots in reaction to the excesses of late 60s and early 70s rock. Once you start talking about songs that were before the period that punk reacted against I think you're simply talking about rock n roll. I mean, should we retroactively call Chuck Berry punk too?

Minstrel

I don't think punk was simply stripped down rock. I think it was an expression against establishment and in favour of individuality and doing your own thing without caring what others thought. That attitude led to stripped down rock and pop, because the musical establishment of the time was about big, excessive sound. I think "My Generation" encapsulates that attitude extremely well. Not only is its theme anti-establishment, the music itself was counter to the Beatles "bouncy, happy pop" style (which was mimicked by many at the time).

John Mellencamp was stripped-down rock & roll, but I'd hardly call him punk. I don't think the style of music dictates it.

__________________
"Blow your tuneless trumpet, the choice is yours / We don't want the glamour, the pomp and the drums / The Dublin messiah scattering crumbs"

ADELE

I think punk in the seventies was more about DIY recording and distribution and art.
Before then many bands wouldn't have gone down the right paths to recording deals.
I think many little labels were able to put out records and bands had fanzines etc.
Of course the record companies soon got hold of it and gained control and that is why the pistols split.
I would say that punk really was 76-79 and after that it was just back to normal record company control.
It was such an explosive creative few years both sides of the pond.
What followed was new romantics which took the art side of the music forward.

Minstrel

Yeah, but the problem with such a definition is that lo-fi, indie and artistic desires have been married by plenty of artists and bands that aren't considered punk. Like Liz Phair's Exile To Guyville or Elliott Smith's early solo work.

__________________
"Blow your tuneless trumpet, the choice is yours / We don't want the glamour, the pomp and the drums / The Dublin messiah scattering crumbs"

ADELE

I haven't heard of them so I can't say but lets not also forget that in the UK the music of punk exacted a revenge on the type of society Britain was in 76.
Yet noone was doing anything about it. The hippies from the 60's were now 30 odds and married and the new youth were seriously pissed off. Blacks were been beaten by sus laws and kids were angry.
That is why it exploded so violently.
Like a bomb.
It was only comparable with the birth of rock in it's intensity and youth spirit.
And moreso because it was attcking the structure of British society and smashing it up.
And it all happened in a few short years.
The politics of punk in the UK was what made it different to the US which was less directly attacking the system and what kids had to go through.
That is why punk in the UK had such an impact and songs like white riot were about how the white youths should riot like the blacks do.
That is probably the catchiest song for me and also one that explemlified English punk.

Janszoon

I guess I'd argue that what you are describing is simply rock n roll. All that anti-establishmentism has been the heart and soul of rock n roll since the beginning. The punk bands of the 70s were just trying to bring it back.

You're right, I'd just call him rock.

Minstrel

I'd say that makes the label "punk" fairly meaningless. People are always trying to bring back stripped-down rock, I always thought the term for that is "roots rock."

Anti-establishment hasn't always been a theme of rock. I don't think Presley, Holly, early Beatles had that as a theme at all. Presley, and rock & roll, may have been seen as inherently anti-establishment because they encouraged sexuality and expressiveness, but most early rock music wasn't expressly about rejecting authority and the mainstream, IMO.

__________________
"Blow your tuneless trumpet, the choice is yours / We don't want the glamour, the pomp and the drums / The Dublin messiah scattering crumbs"

Grunge_Junkie

haha what a great song.

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