Vancouver

yes I'm aware, but the end result was REALLY different than anything going on in the USA. So it's the level of influence we disagree on...

Sansa Stark

Not really different, I'd say. They were also put together to sell clothes, and replaced their perfectly competent bassist with someone who was chosen more for his image.

I think, The Stooges were more of a spearhead, along with the MC5 (MI represent) and the Dead Boys as well, they were more like the Pistols, actually. According to the book Please Kill Me (I thin k it was) Patti Smith actually did the first ''punk'' show. All of the CBGBs crowd was a huuuuuuuuge influence on what was to become punk rock, and that did include the Ramones (along with other fantastic bands, such as Television, Blondie, and the Talking Heads).

Fun fact: The Clash were afraid of the Ramones when they came to England, they thought they'd beat them up.

Urban Hat€monger ?

It's also a vastly overstated influence.

Sure Steve Jones was into the New York Dolls but he was just as much into Bowie & Roxy Music.
Lydon hated all the New York stuff, he was into Alice Cooper, Can & Hawkwind.

People overstate the New York influence far too much.

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Neapolitan

I see it as Punk having two different pools of influence on either side of the Atlantic. There is a thread of influence that runs from Frat Rock into Garage Rock into Punk the inbetween Garage and punk became to be known as "Proto-Punk" - a retronym. Acid Rock and Glam Rock has some influnce too, one thread of influence not mention is from Dick Dale, Surf Rock, The Ramones were influenced by the Beach Boys and they in turned were influnced by Dick Dale. Johnny Ramone began as a bass player then switch to guitar, and played his guitar similar to playing bass where he played 5th chords in I IV V progression. imo The Ramones really had the classic Punk sound (they innovated it and kept it where other bands it was a passing thing.)

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loveissucide

As well as this, the pub rock scene was crucial in creating punk, by virtue of (i) it being a natural musical progression, (ii) providing a new live circuit for new groups, and (iii) helping differentiate the British and American scenes by allowing for a wider range of acts, as opposed to the Ramones imitators that came to dominate the US scene.

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Janszoon

I know you think that but I disagree. The Sex Pistols sounded a hell of a lot more like the NYC bands than Bowie, Roxy Music, Alice Cooper, Can and Hawkwind. The connection is pretty obvious to me and I think people downplay the NYC influence too much.

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Alfred

I've said it before and I'll say it again... we should close this thread, as well as the other one and just make a Clash vs Sex Pistols vs Ramones thread.

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Urban Hat€monger ?

If anything it owes more to Detroit than New York.

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Janszoon

I think NYC was the more immediate precursor with the more direct connection but I agree with you that Detroit was really important as well and a huge influence on the NYC bands.

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Time & Place

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Taytayism27

The Ramones, 100% fersure. But thats just me. I personally, cant beleive the Clash are winning by so much. In my opinion, the Ramones are so very much better. I mean really, just listen to them, its indescribable!