can_i_say

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teshadoh

And this is why I think punk music as a social movement is dead - because the understanding of why punk music began has been lost. As much as I like 80's American Hardcore, many have developed the wrong belief that punk equates to 'HARD' rather than 'CORE'. Or, that the true flame bearers of punk is nu-metal, thrash, or death metal rather than in my view - indie rock (at least in the 90's).

The argument that is totally lost on oomph, is that Led Zeppelin & The Who represented corporate rock in the 1970's. They made massive amounts of money, they developed a pompous view that their music was 'art', their fan base was homogeneous, they lived excessive self-centered lifestyles, they catered to their corporate father's every whim, and most importantly they developed the concept that only musical virtuoso's have the ability to be in rock bands. That is what punk rebelled against, not necessarily pop though certainly most pop artists were placed in punk's cross hairs as well. But it was never about turning the volume up to 11, but about destroying music & starting over.

By the way I do like led zep & the who, but those bands I would have to admit became tired & sounded over-rehearsed by the mid & late 70's.

sleepy jack

Oomph! really doesn't know much about music in the 60s/70s as he's already displayed. He can go on about how he does but he called Pink Floyd hard-rock and proto-heavy metal. His knowledge on the subject is completely laughable.

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Oomph!

I just said it is possible to be popular without selling things. I really don't give a s*** how the arctic monkeys became sucessful before they sold thier album, it's besides the point. They probably released a single first or something.

Yes I DO have evidence, I posted 3 sources (2 if you don't care for wiki) and I could give you more if you'd like.

ALL YOU DO is make generalizations and baseless judegements, I don't think I care to hear it from you.

It isn't contradicting.

Can't you read? I just said that I am speaking of the genre IN GENERAL, which translates to MOST, not ALL.

A. Ok, so I guess you really can't read. I didn't say "You can't be popular without sales". I said "You can't sell without popularity"

B. They SOLD the album, not in a traditional way but they did. People PAYED MONEY to PURCHASE the album, and they then collected on a PROFIT.

Further proof you can't read. I never siad ALL pop musicians this nor "ALL pop that.

I said "pop musicians this" and "pop musicians that"

It's called 'advertising', and oh yes, it does make you money.

It boosts your sales, yes it does.

Never said popularity automatically garnishes sales, I said popularity is required to garnish (allot) of sales, again with the illeteracy.

Just some of the biggest purely-pop, mainstream acts of all time....

Ok fine, me too, so don't criticize me when I make **** up to sound correct and then ask for evidence or sources....

Far Beyond Driven

Holy ****, this lame argument is still going on.

Oomph!

I was reffering to Led Zepplin when I said that, I didn't realize you were speaking of Pink Floyd because in the post just before it we were talking about LZ.

Pink Floyd is hard rock (among many things) though, yes, they are.

What a jerk....

And what isn't a 'lame argument' on this forum? "WATZ YOUR TOP 10 FAVORITE BANDZ OF AL TIME?"

Or maybe "BEATLES VERSUS STONES THREAD #5!!!"?

You don't have to be here if it's lame and you have nothing to contribute....

I'm not talking about music from yesterdecade, I'm not talking about music NOW, so that really doesn't matter.

Could you be any more pompous?

Far Beyond Driven

He's gone you know.

sleepy jack

You don't need singles or an album to be popular. Led Zeppelin never released any singles but they were still popular...weird concept huh?

Aside from that of course they released a single but singles aren't something people tend to go rush out and buy because your average music shop doesn't typically carry them and most people don't typically care to go and buy them. They become the biggest band in Britain at that time without even releasing an album, you don't need to sell to be popular.

You still haven't told me who you're other two sources were, I've never heard of the two guys. This is the fourth time I've asked you.

"pop is a corporate enforcing, establishment building movement" implies all, you never specifically stated most. You're being so condescending about me not being able to read but you can't even comprehend what you're saying.

If I couldn't read I couldn't reply to you in the first place.

They still gave you the option to get it for free which plenty of people took advantage of and no doubt led to even more coverage/popularity. It wasn't some simple itunes pay to get it thing, it was do what you want to get it thing. In Rainbow's popularity can very much be attributed to the free option.

I repeat: ""pop is a corporate enforcing, establishment building movement" implies all, you never specifically stated most. You're being so condescending about me not being able to read but you can't even comprehend what you're saying."

You don't earn money off of it it only gives you exposure which attributes to your popularity not sales. Unless of course you can provide me with some sort of evidence when your album gets reviewed you somehow start making money off of it. Indirectly it could lead to album sales yes but that doesn't mean you make money off of that good review.

lol illiteracy*

So Nsync and Britney Spears represent pop in its entirety? Including the stuff from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s? How very ignorant of you.




"HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHA Pink Floyd a hard rock band?! We're talking about the band that recorded Bike and Comfortably Numb right!? Christ why don't you listen to the music before you even try and say what it is and isn't."

Where did I mention Led Zeppelin?

How is Pink Floyd hard rock? There's hardly anything hard about Pink Floyd please explain this opinion and don't reply with it "LOLS VH1 SAID SO!!111"

We're arguing about pop music, pop music has been around for a very long time so yes you do have to argue "yesterdecade" because we're arguing pop. Well actually we're arguing pop and punk, both come from "yesterdecade" either way we're definitely talking about music from "yesterdecade." I mean c'mon we we're just talking about Floyd a quote up, you realize they started out in the 60s right?

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Oomph!

I'm not saying you need sales to be popular I'm saying you need to be popular to sell.

Correct, you do not need to sell to be popular, but you DO need to be popular to sell (and by 'sell' I mean sell allot).

Yes I have told you my 2 sources, I quoted them and cited them properly, If you've never heard of them that's your problem, google 'em up or something.

No it implies 'In general".

"Christians are foolish", that's a generalization, which means i'm speaking of them in general. I'm speaking of a group, not a specific entitiy or object.

This falls into the category of being popular without selling, I've adressed this above so let's stop wasting time splitting hairs on this.

I repeat: It implies "In general".

Ok......so it gives you sales indirectly. People read a positive review which assures them it's a good album and they feel compelled to buy it. So.....what's your point?

Shoddy spelling > shoddy reading comprehention.

It represents modern, mainstream pop in general, which is what I'm reffering to.

If I remember correctly, I started this thread, I started this argument, you are debating my point, and my point (which started as a question) is:

Notice the usage of the PRESENT TENSE. That's what I've been using in all of my points. I'm not talking about the 60's I'm talking about THIS era of time.

If someone said "Americans are fat", they aren't talking about the colonial age or the industrial revolution, obviously, and they are also talking about Americans in general, it's NOT implied that they explicitly are reffering to ALL Americans.

Rainard Jalen

...nobody was denying that to begin with.

And who was making a defense of "mainstream, modern pop in general"? If that's all you mean, then you're preaching to the choir. Very few people here like the over-produced top 10 chart music of 2008.