Did Malcolm McLaren Invent Punk? (pop, rock, genre, iggy pop)

ProggyMan · 02-09-2008, 09:26 PM

Saying McLaren invented Punk is like saying Nirvana invented Grunge. Popularizing is different than 'inventing'. Genre's don't really get invented anyway.

~~ADELE~~ · 02-09-2008, 10:15 PM

But don't bands have to have a whole fashion, style, movement and great songs to get anywhere?
That is invention. Otherwise the band is just another like all others and may aswell be a pub band.
Look for an example with the Beatles and Epstein. He created an image with four identical haircuts and suits and certain style. They were one of Epsteins bands who all done the same but they had the ability to get mass appeal. Grunge may not have been because of Nivarna but if it wasn't for Nivarna I don't think many people anywhere would have heard of the grunge style. In which case anyone at all can claim to have been doing it for years. Isn't been in a band about getting people to buy into your style and follow you? If noone at all is aware of your style what good is it? When I say he invented punk I mean he is the reason the world knows what punk means. He difined it. The pistols defined the concept in the worlds eyes. From then on punk was what the pistols made it. The pistols made the blueprint for pretty much all the punk bands to come. You must get my point by now. Can someone please back me? Maybe explain my point more eloquently.

ProggyMan · 02-09-2008, 10:18 PM

But that has nothing to do with the word invent. Invention: The act, or process of inventing something. Maybe The Pistols defined Punk for the mainstream, but no way, no how did they invent it, or are the definitive Punk band.

~~ADELE~~ · 02-09-2008, 10:30 PM

They bloody are the definitive punk band.
Now you are been silly.
Who is then if it isn't the pistols? Common for reality's sake.
They invented it in the UK as noone knew anything about it in Europe. Are you saying that a few bands in CBGB's can claim to be the first punk bands? Then I could claim I was the first punk artist as my friends in North london listened to my music in 72. I don't want to get bogged down in definitions from Oxford English Dictionary here. You know what I mean.
It is like saying Bob Dylan was a pioneer of rap music with his delivery of words or something. Let's not get into that. let's look at Albums and what woke people up in this world. An explosion that all other bands then copied relentlessly. They stopped whatever they were doing and said "this way lads from now on" that was the invention of punk as we know it. I mean the Beatles in Hamburg were punks but you know what I mean. Call it defined or popularised but you all know what I mean. Music evolves always just like the clash integrated reggae into their music but that initial explosion of Malcolm's band was one of the biggest things in music history worldwide.

ProggyMan · 02-09-2008, 10:37 PM

LOl, what? That Bob Dylan analogy was off. Anyway, how the hell does being the first Punk band to make it big in Europe make them the definitive Punk band, or the first. Which to invent it, they would have to be. It's like saying gravity didn't exist until Newton wrote a paper about it.

~~ADELE~~ · 02-09-2008, 10:49 PM

Gravity didn't exist till Newton wrote a paper on it. Not in anyone's minds in the world. I mean, I could claim to be the first punk artist then and who could say I wasn't? As long as I have a witness to testify that I was?
I mean invent the genre of music for people to see as a new fresh style away from progressive rock at the time. I am telling you my friend NOONE in US knew anything about CBGB's other then a few of them who were there. The movement began in the UK and then the New York bands claimed that was what they were doing. Even Marley acknowledged The Pistols as revolutionary in their new style. I should have said "did he invent the movement" then and that would be better.
You can't say he didn't start the movement. Richard Hell couldn't even start an arguement.

ProggyMan · 02-09-2008, 10:51 PM

They gave the movement a huge boost that sent them over the top. In the minds of the mainstream media at the time they had invented it. But ask any rock historian and they'll tell you they weren't even close to the first Punk band. They weren't even part of the first scene of Punk.

~~ADELE~~ · 02-09-2008, 11:26 PM

Who was then?

sleepy jack · 02-09-2008, 11:40 PM

Ugh, there's no point in arguing with you is there? You refuse to believe anyone other than the Sex Pistols was more important to punk than them.

GravitySlips · 02-10-2008, 06:57 AM

who

cares

02-09-2008, 09:26 PM	#41 (permalink)
ProggyMan Reformed Jackass Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,964	Saying McLaren invented Punk is like saying Nirvana invented Grunge. Popularizing is different than 'inventing'. Genre's don't really get invented anyway.

02-09-2008, 10:15 PM	#42 (permalink)
~~ADELE~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 466	But don't bands have to have a whole fashion, style, movement and great songs to get anywhere? That is invention. Otherwise the band is just another like all others and may aswell be a pub band. Look for an example with the Beatles and Epstein. He created an image with four identical haircuts and suits and certain style. They were one of Epsteins bands who all done the same but they had the ability to get mass appeal. Grunge may not have been because of Nivarna but if it wasn't for Nivarna I don't think many people anywhere would have heard of the grunge style. In which case anyone at all can claim to have been doing it for years. Isn't been in a band about getting people to buy into your style and follow you? If noone at all is aware of your style what good is it? When I say he invented punk I mean he is the reason the world knows what punk means. He difined it. The pistols defined the concept in the worlds eyes. From then on punk was what the pistols made it. The pistols made the blueprint for pretty much all the punk bands to come. You must get my point by now. Can someone please back me? Maybe explain my point more eloquently.

02-09-2008, 10:18 PM	#43 (permalink)
ProggyMan Reformed Jackass Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,964	But that has nothing to do with the word invent. Invention: The act, or process of inventing something. Maybe The Pistols defined Punk for the mainstream, but no way, no how did they invent it, or are the definitive Punk band.

02-09-2008, 10:30 PM	#44 (permalink)
~~ADELE~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 466	They bloody are the definitive punk band. Now you are been silly. Who is then if it isn't the pistols? Common for reality's sake. They invented it in the UK as noone knew anything about it in Europe. Are you saying that a few bands in CBGB's can claim to be the first punk bands? Then I could claim I was the first punk artist as my friends in North london listened to my music in 72. I don't want to get bogged down in definitions from Oxford English Dictionary here. You know what I mean. It is like saying Bob Dylan was a pioneer of rap music with his delivery of words or something. Let's not get into that. let's look at Albums and what woke people up in this world. An explosion that all other bands then copied relentlessly. They stopped whatever they were doing and said "this way lads from now on" that was the invention of punk as we know it. I mean the Beatles in Hamburg were punks but you know what I mean. Call it defined or popularised but you all know what I mean. Music evolves always just like the clash integrated reggae into their music but that initial explosion of Malcolm's band was one of the biggest things in music history worldwide.

02-09-2008, 10:37 PM	#45 (permalink)
ProggyMan Reformed Jackass Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,964	LOl, what? That Bob Dylan analogy was off. Anyway, how the hell does being the first Punk band to make it big in Europe make them the definitive Punk band, or the first. Which to invent it, they would have to be. It's like saying gravity didn't exist until Newton wrote a paper about it.

02-09-2008, 10:49 PM	#46 (permalink)
~~ADELE~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 466	Gravity didn't exist till Newton wrote a paper on it. Not in anyone's minds in the world. I mean, I could claim to be the first punk artist then and who could say I wasn't? As long as I have a witness to testify that I was? I mean invent the genre of music for people to see as a new fresh style away from progressive rock at the time. I am telling you my friend NOONE in US knew anything about CBGB's other then a few of them who were there. The movement began in the UK and then the New York bands claimed that was what they were doing. Even Marley acknowledged The Pistols as revolutionary in their new style. I should have said "did he invent the movement" then and that would be better. You can't say he didn't start the movement. Richard Hell couldn't even start an arguement.

02-09-2008, 10:51 PM	#47 (permalink)
ProggyMan Reformed Jackass Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,964	They gave the movement a huge boost that sent them over the top. In the minds of the mainstream media at the time they had invented it. But ask any rock historian and they'll tell you they weren't even close to the first Punk band. They weren't even part of the first scene of Punk.

02-09-2008, 11:26 PM	#48 (permalink)
~~ADELE~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 466	Who was then?

02-10-2008, 06:57 AM	#50 (permalink)
GravitySlips Music Addict Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,578	who cares