Did Malcolm McLaren Invent Punk?

right-track · 06-12-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedey

Malcolm McLaren didn't invent Punk he exploited it ...big difference.

The first reference to the term Punk I recall was in a book written in the late sixties in referring to The Who.

The seeds to Punk were planted by The Monks in the mid-sixties.

^

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

Oh, ffs!!!
This shit could go on and on.

I mean... how far back do you want to go?
Mozart?

The Sex Pistols were the first punk band...end of.

jackhammer · 06-12-2010, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

I think boobs means that, with the whole SEX shop thing, there was a "punk" trend created, so everyone in the scene would know how to dress accordingly. But as someone said, he just bottled it and made it marketable.

And if I remember correctly from docs and reading Please Kill Me, Legs McNeil claimed to have coined the term "punk" to describe the scene.

No he specifically remarked on my Reggae post and made a totally uninformed misjudged remark about it.

Punk evolved differently in America and the U.K and to say that Reggae was a fashion trend is the sort of mis informed post that gets my goat.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 06-13-2010, 12:29 AM

Alright then, sorry jh

Jedey · 08-28-2010, 06:59 PM

I am reading a Rolling Stone magazine from January 4, 1973 and there is a review of "Nuggets: Original Artifacts From The First Psychedelic Era". the headline reads "Punk Rock: The Arrogant Underbelly of Sixties Pop". So the first punk rock would have to be bands like The Sonics, The Seeds, The Blues Magoos, The Standells, Count Five & The Monks.

jackhammer · 08-28-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedey

I am reading a Rolling Stone magazine from January 4, 1973 and there is a review of "Nuggets: Original Artifacts From The First Psychedelic Era". the headline reads "Punk Rock: The Arrogant Underbelly of Sixties Pop". So the first punk rock would have to be bands like The Sonics, The Seeds, The Blues Magoos, The Standells, Count Five & The Monks.

That label was applied retrospectively. Garage Rock was the first Punk Rock but they didn't know it and neither did record companies. You could even go back and say that the Hamburg years of The Beatles was 'punk Rock' I.E delivering sets fueled by amphetamines with no record company dictating what was played and when and therefore a big F.U to the the mainstream but then they cut their hair and made bland derivative music for 4 years.

Punk music was sown through amateur bands but still lacked identity for good or bad until the ginger minger (MM) came up with the most audacious marketing ploy ever.....and it worked!

Jedey · 08-28-2010, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer

That label was applied retrospectively. Garage Rock was the first Punk Rock but they didn't know it and neither did record companies. You could even go back and say that the Hamburg years of The Beatles was 'punk Rock' I.E delivering sets fueled by amphetamines with no record company dictating what was played and when and therefore a big F.U to the the mainstream but then they cut their hair and made bland derivative music for 4 years.

Punk music was sown through amateur bands but still lacked identity for good or bad until the ginger minger (MM) came up with the most audacious marketing ploy ever.....and it worked!

I am reading old Rolling Stones off of a DVD-ROM and all of a sudden in 1973 the term punk starts showing up more and more, I just ran across a caption that reads "Lou Reed: The forebearer of glitter rock goes macho punk on stage". It's kind of funny how the term didn't really stick until it was attached to The Sex Pistols.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-28-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedey

It's kind of funny how the term didn't really stick until it was attached to The Sex Pistols.

It didn't stick because it was just a term being thrown around. It wouldn't be the first time something has been used to describe something that was later used to describe a whole genre.
I can remember Stereolab being called post rock in the early 90s. Stereolab don't sound anything like a post rock band. But at the time it was just a meaningless term when post rock as a genre didn't exist, just like 'punk rock' in 1973.

It was when the Sex Pistols came along that term finally meant something, and no amount of retrospective labelling will change that.

Davey Moore · 08-30-2010, 08:11 PM

I'd say The Stooges, Monks and MC5 are the forefathers. The Stooges especially, since Iggy wasn't just a singer but a force of personality.

lieasleep · 09-09-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey Moore

I'd say The Stooges, Monks and MC5 are the forefathers. The Stooges especially, since Iggy wasn't just a singer but a force of personality.

Agreed but don't forget the New York Dolls and the (early) Velvet Underground, I would say they had as much do with it as anybody else (except the Stooges, who really did invent the genre)

Plus of course garage rock. Like listen to the Music Machine's talk talk and tell me that isn't an early punk song if you didnt ever hear one. or even the kinks' you really got me. some great would-be punk :]

ElvisThunders · 02-19-2012, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer

But in the words of Ian Dury: 'There ain't half been some clever bastards' and he recognised the potential of the scene , for good or bad.

Fans in the know do acknowledge the origins of Punk and attribute it to many American bands. Mc Claren bottled it, gave it a name and spawned a sub genre.

We could be pedantic and say that the British invasion in the 60's was a catalyst for the forerunners of Punk but then we would be going around in circles I guess.

Yes that is spot on. My favorite band is the New York Dolls so I despise Malcom with a passion but still Malcom is to punk rock what Alan Freed was to rock n roll. Rock-n-roll music existed before Freed and punk existed before McLaren (heck really before Freed!) but it was those men who really launched both revolutions (as much as I hate to say that about McLaren who made a bad situation for the Dolls much much worse)

Rock-n-roll wasn't rock-n-roll until Freed called it such over and over again and punk rock was just people who rejected boring hippy rock and preferred the old rock-n-roll until Malcom 'bottled it and gave it a name' as you said.

08-28-2010, 06:59 PM	#134 (permalink)
Jedey Veritas vos liberabit Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Musicapolis Posts: 477	I am reading a Rolling Stone magazine from January 4, 1973 and there is a review of "Nuggets: Original Artifacts From The First Psychedelic Era". the headline reads "Punk Rock: The Arrogant Underbelly of Sixties Pop". So the first punk rock would have to be bands like The Sonics, The Seeds, The Blues Magoos, The Standells, Count Five & The Monks. __________________ My Tunes

08-30-2010, 08:11 PM	#138 (permalink)
Davey Moore The Great Disappearer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: URI Campus and Coventry, both in RI Posts: 462	I'd say The Stooges, Monks and MC5 are the forefathers. The Stooges especially, since Iggy wasn't just a singer but a force of personality. __________________ The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.

06-13-2010, 12:29 AM	#133 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	Alright then, sorry jh